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Shiori Miko

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:58 am


I saw this on another site and I just love the points she's made and how she presents them so I wanted to share this with you.

Quote:

So, something happened today that really upset me and i feel i need to make a blog post about. I'm sorry if this offends, but i just have to make a post because i am offended. I'm not trying to start a fight or HUGE debate, but trying to get my emotions out....

I found out that my sister went on a date with her husband last night to Red Robbin and had their 3 month old with them. When my sister was nursing my niece the manager came up and asked her to cover up. My brother in law said that it was their legal right to nurse in public, but the manager wouldn't listen, he said that he had a shirt in the back she could use. My sister said no, they would just leave. She told me that she wasn't "forced" to leave, but she felt if she didn't cover up that he would ask her to leave or even call the police or something. So they just left so they wouldn't cause a scene.

Why does this story upset me? Because i feel that every nursing mother has the right to nurse where and when they want and i don't feel that they should have to cover up. And you know what, the law in Washington State agrees.

The law states (emphasis mine):

"Breastfeeding in public is not considered indecent exposure.

Breastfeeding mothers are protected under state anti-discrimination law, and can breastfeed their children in public places such as restaurants, pools, theaters, government buildings, museums, libraries, busses, or parks. No one, including business owners or employees
can tell a mother to leave, go to the restroom, or cover the child.

If you choose to provide a space for breastfeeding, place signs prominently in your business but know it is the breastfeeding woman’s right to stay where she is. She does not have to use a designated area."

I have a problem with people who feel that a women nursing her child is trying to be provocative, or seductive or rude or whatever. She is only trying to feed her child. That is it. You know what, BREASTS were given to us so we could feed our children. Shocker huh but that is their real purpose. It is our society and lifestyles that has changed that perspective and made the breast into a sexual object.

Some good points from some wonderful articles back up very well what i'm trying to say (i know this is long, but bare with me, since they are GREAT points):

"So what is it about the breasts that makes North Americans so obsessed with them as sexual objects? In the course of history many different parts of the female body have been fetishes for men, for example ankles, necks, and tiny feet (in China), so why breast obsession in our age?
It seems to be linked to the fact breasts are viewed so strongly as sexual body parts, and not seen as baby feeders. In fact, Americans are about to forget the natural function of the breasts.

In the fall of 1993, one of the undergraduate students in my 'Women and Culture' course was totally flabbergasted to discover that the biological function of women's breasts was for feeding children. With obvious shock and disgust evident in her voice she asked, 'You mean women's breasts are like a cow's udder?' That a young woman could reach college without ever having even heard of women using their breasts to feed their children is a sad commentary on American culture.
Katherine Dettwyler as quoted in The Breastfeeding Action Committee of Edmonton (BACE) report about Breastfeeding at Municipal Pools in Canada

If we can see breasts as the wonderful means God created to feed and comfort babies, then the obsessions men have about them can disappear; and importantly, women don't have to obsessively worry about the size and shape of their breasts.

This obsession HURTS women and men in various ways that are not always obvious. For example, a woman may need to go braless because of her breast health's sake, which results in men ogling over her, making comments, and considering her only on a sexual level.
But why does the American society view breasts primarily as sexual objects and not as baby feeders? Carolyn Latteier voiced it out this way in Berman & Berman's TV program "All about breasts":

"Well, I think it is partly to do with the fact that we don't breastfeed very much. I mean, breastfeeding rates have improved, but most women don't breastfeed very much or very long or in public. So when we see a breast, we don't say, "Oh there are those magical milk-making things.""
Lack of Breastfeeding Leads to Breast Obession
http://www.007b.com/breast_obsession.php

"In North America and in many other westernized countries a woman's breasts are a taboo: they are supposed to be hidden. Exposing woman's breasts in public is considered shameful and inappropriate ("indecent exposure") even on beaches or while breastfeeding. In other words, breasts - or at least the n****e - are supposed to be covered at all times.
Parents tend to teach their children the same way, and many times children don't see a single naturally nude breast (apart from their own) while growing up. It is totally possible that a child grows up in North America and never sees a baby breastfeeding!

However, while exposing breasts in public is a “no-no”, children and young people often see breasts (although practically never the nipples) displayed in a sexually provocative fashion on television, on the Internet, and in magazines. Breasts are actually emphasized in the advertisements, which signals to our young people that breasts are a sexual object, and only beautiful when big and protruding.

However, we know that the larger breasts in the media is often just a fallacy, since the models and actors use push-up bras and breast enlargement to artificially enhance the way their breasts look like. Besides that, the photographs are always airbrushed to look just "right". Just think: if young girls continually see this propaganda without a balancing view of natural naked breasts, it is no wonder they also start seriously worrying about the size and shape of their own breasts even to the point of suicide!

And women do greatly worry about their breast size as proven by the huge amount of augmentation surgeries: according to American Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery, in 2006 383,336 women had a breast augmentation. The same year, cosmetic surgeries were up 446% from the year 1997.

While nearly all US women are worried or even obsessed about their breast size and shape, some men have definite obsessions with female breasts are a source of sexual fantasy / turn-on. For these men, it is not just a general appreciation of the female figure or the various body parts, but a fetish, an extreme fixation or obsession. They get sexually inspired by looking at pictures with cleavage, where breasts are enticingly almost visible, yet hidden. While these men probably realize that this is happening, and feel they enjoy it, they are nevertheless "bound" by this behavior.

The general breast taboo and the provocative visual images in the media greatly encourage men to view breasts as objects of sexual arousal and play. Men are actually being conditioned to see breasts as sexual - to them, breasts become almost like inanimate objects that automatically "click" their brains to the "turn-on" mode.

This "obsession" is to be distinguished from a general appreciation of breasts for what they are (source of nourishment). Boys who were breast-fed as babies have a deep-seated "built-in" appreciation for a woman's breasts due to the child-mother relationship. This is NOT sexual in nature, nor arousing, but merely an instinctive appreciation towards breasts deep in one's psyche (soul).
The media images are screwed up.

So who benefits from this total taboo of female breasts? That is not hard to answer: the pornographic industry can now earn good money by showing men bare breasts that they can not see elsewhere. And truly: if this taboo was any less, for example if topless sunbathing was widely accepted and practiced, everybody would know how female breasts looked like - and pornographic magazines would sell a whole lot less.

Of course breasts are a female body part, and there is nothing wrong in considering them beautiful as part of a woman's body. But let's let breasts be like legs, hips, neck, face, and all the other body parts of a female - not lis some almost inanimate objects that automatically "click" men's brains' to the "turn on" mode.

"Well, we do have a peculiar obsession with breasts in this culture. A lot of people think it's just the human nature to be fascinated with breasts but in many cultures, breasts aren't sexual at all. I interviewed a young anthropologist working with women in Mali, in a country in Africa where women go around with bare breasts. They're always feeding their babies. And when she told them that in our culture men are fascinated with breasts there was an instant of shock. The women burst out laughing. They laughed so hard, they fell on the floor. They said, "You mean, men act like babies?"

Carolyn Latteier, the author of Breasts, The Women's Perspective on an American Obsession, in a TV program "All about breasts"


Breast Taboo in the North American Culture
http://www.007b.com/breast_taboo.php

So what does all this mean? It means forcing women to cover up, to leave the room, to nurse in private is harming our society. If we as a society grew up seeing women every day breastfeeding their children, we would not see breasts as a sexual object and thereby wouldn't be so shocked and offended when we saw a women breastfeeding.

Some argue that women can easily cover up their child while nursing. Yes, *some* women can do this, but not all. Some babies will not tolerate being covered up, and will scream and tear the blanket off causing more of a scene then if the mother had just been discreetly nursing. Other women live in a climate that is too hot for a baby to be safely covered under a blanket for so long. And with all babies, having their face covered for so long with a blanket is not safe. Being covered means they are breathing old air which lowers their oxygen levels which can be dangerous for the baby. Very dangerous. So why should a mother put her child at such risk just to make someone else more comfortable? That is absurd!

If you don't agree with women breastfeeding in public, then by all means, look the other way. No one is forcing you to stare.

on a last note, here are some good articles and videos about breastfeeding in public:

Breastfeeding is Offensive!
http://www.cafemom.com/journals/read/1502195/PIOG_Breastfeeding_Offensive

Breastfeeding in Whose Public?
http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/whose_public.html

Breastfeeding in Public is Legal
http://www.007b.com/breastfeeding_public.php

You need to cover up!
http://www.breastfeeding.com/advocacy/you_need_to_cover_up.html

Breastfeeding in Public-video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2v6a6ybaI

This should really be common sense
http://www.cafemom.com/group/416/forums/read/11419911/This_really_should_be_common_sense?ct=acm_charms

To Give the Breast is to Give Life: A Public Breastfeeding Broadcast in Puerto Rico
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=942FRjAJhxU&has_verified=1

*stepping off soap box*
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:27 am


I honestly don't see a problem with a woman nursing her child in public. It's her legal right to do so and no one should tell her off for doing so. I personally would not feel comfortable doing it though.

Shadows-shine

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h y p o c h r i s t i

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:33 am


I don't have an issue with mothers who breastfeed in public. I just look away and mind my own business. I'd feel uncomfortable doing it myself, though. I'd prefer to just use a breast pump before I even went out, that way I'd have bottles of milk ready to go. To me, that'd save time and the hassle of messing with clothing and such. This is assuming I even have children one day.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:03 pm


I don't have a problem with breastfeeding in public.. telling a nursing mother that she cannot breastfeed her baby in public..is like telling her to starve her baby or something.. the baby has to eat no matter where the place is.. and if people find it offensive then they should mind their own business.. I however would prefer to cover.. but it should not be forced on the mother

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Shiori Miko

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:23 pm


h y p o c h r i s t i
I don't have an issue with mothers who breastfeed in public. I just look away and mind my own business. I'd feel uncomfortable doing it myself, though. I'd prefer to just use a breast pump before I even went out, that way I'd have bottles of milk ready to go. To me, that'd save time and the hassle of messing with clothing and such. This is assuming I even have children one day.

The breast pump doesn't work as well as a baby would in telling your body to make more milk. Plus then the milk would be put in a bottle and you shouldn't give a bottle to a baby until they're about a month or two.

We covered lactation in my summer Nutrition class. sweatdrop
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:37 pm


Shiori Miko
h y p o c h r i s t i
I don't have an issue with mothers who breastfeed in public. I just look away and mind my own business. I'd feel uncomfortable doing it myself, though. I'd prefer to just use a breast pump before I even went out, that way I'd have bottles of milk ready to go. To me, that'd save time and the hassle of messing with clothing and such. This is assuming I even have children one day.

The breast pump doesn't work as well as a baby would in telling your body to make more milk. Plus then the milk would be put in a bottle and you shouldn't give a bottle to a baby until they're about a month or two.

We covered lactation in my summer Nutrition class. sweatdrop


I am thinking that is why my breastfeeding my baby was not successful. The hospital gave her a pacifier and a bottle before she even had a chance to be with me.... stare Plus, my milk production was low to begin with. I tried every thing to get her to nurse and to up production, but in the end to keep her from starving I had to move to formula.

Shadows-shine

Invisible Shapeshifter


Anorectic-Pandas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:11 pm


Legally, a woman has that right.
So legally, I have no problem with it.


BUUUUUUUUT.

It's still nudity.
I think a woman should at least get a cover.

http://www.theundercoverbaby.com/assets/images/homepic2.jpg
(It's not a trap; the IMG tags just don't seem to be working.)


It doesn't affect the baby's feeding in any way, and keeps other people's wishes and needs safe.

What about the people that have strict religious beliefs?
Looking at a breast, other than one's own wife's, is a sin.
What happens if they look over and see you breastfeeding?


I know the law says they have a right to do it, but I think women should at least think about whether or not they would like to cover up.

Or better yet, why not make sure you're at home/ in private when your baby needs to be fed?
(I know baby's are sometimes irregular, but through experience babysitting, I know they do start to create a schedule.)


Edit: Or why not step into the bathroom when your baby becomes hungry?
You could be in a stall, or just generally in there, and that would also give you a good place to clean up, or change diapers.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:33 pm


Shiori Miko
h y p o c h r i s t i
I don't have an issue with mothers who breastfeed in public. I just look away and mind my own business. I'd feel uncomfortable doing it myself, though. I'd prefer to just use a breast pump before I even went out, that way I'd have bottles of milk ready to go. To me, that'd save time and the hassle of messing with clothing and such. This is assuming I even have children one day.

The breast pump doesn't work as well as a baby would in telling your body to make more milk. Plus then the milk would be put in a bottle and you shouldn't give a bottle to a baby until they're about a month or two.

We covered lactation in my summer Nutrition class. sweatdrop

I see. I just know my mom used one of those things when my younger brother was a baby. She didn't breastfeed in public due to social anxiety problems, the same reason I don't think I could do it.

Just to add to the topic...in American society where no one gives a damn (legally) if fat men with bigger breasts than some women walk around with their shirts off, it shouldn't be considered obscene for a woman to feed her child.

h y p o c h r i s t i


Shiori Miko

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:57 pm


Anorectic-Pandas
Legally, a woman has that right.
So legally, I have no problem with it.


BUUUUUUUUT.

It's still nudity.
I think a woman should at least get a cover.

http://www.theundercoverbaby.com/assets/images/homepic2.jpg
(It's not a trap; the IMG tags just don't seem to be working.)


It doesn't affect the baby's feeding in any way, and keeps other people's wishes and needs safe.

What about the people that have strict religious beliefs?
Looking at a breast, other than one's own wife's, is a sin.
What happens if they look over and see you breastfeeding?


I know the law says they have a right to do it, but I think women should at least think about whether or not they would like to cover up.

Or better yet, why not make sure you're at home/ in private when your baby needs to be fed?
(I know baby's are sometimes irregular, but through experience babysitting, I know they do start to create a schedule.)


Edit: Or why not step into the bathroom when your baby becomes hungry?
You could be in a stall, or just generally in there, and that would also give you a good place to clean up, or change diapers.

In the second to last link, the women who are not breastfeeding are far more revealing. A woman wearing a bikini is closer to nudity than any breastfeeding I've seen.

Though I'm not sure why it makes some people uncomfortable. With my sister's first child she would leave the room to feed him. I accidently walked in on her once and it was pretty uncomfortable. But with her 2nd and 3rd child she didn't hide to feed them and I never felt uncomfortable when she lifted her shirt to feed them.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:12 pm


This pickled vegetable...

Honestly, I think breast feeding in and of itself is disturbing.

... could kick your a** !!

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Anorectic-Pandas

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:25 pm


Shiori Miko

In the second to last link, the women who are not breastfeeding are far more revealing. A woman wearing a bikini is closer to nudity than any breastfeeding I've seen.

Though I'm not sure why it makes some people uncomfortable. With my sister's first child she would leave the room to feed him. I accidently walked in on her once and it was pretty uncomfortable. But with her 2nd and 3rd child she didn't hide to feed them and I never felt uncomfortable when she lifted her shirt to feed them.


A bikini typically covers the breast (and the ones that are string are in the same boat as breastfeeding with me), but to breastfeed, a lot of the time, a good portion of the breast has to be exposed and uncovered.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:07 pm


Breastfeeding is a natural and GOD made process. Doing it in public and not covering up present problems because of the mindsets of people; which includes perverts and those with sexual issues etc. Privacy in this world is important so do it in private or at least cover up. seriously consider the personality types that you will encounter on your life journey, especially the types you would not want to have access to sight of your body or your child. Many things are legal but not all things are benifical.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:12 pm


Um... I would not want to sit in a resturant and see a woman nursing her child. That is a little too personal for me. I nursed in my house in front of my female friends, but not in public infront of strangers. If I did I would have gone to the bathroom, some places now have a mother's lounge, which is a really nice idea. Fine with me that it is not considered indescent exposure, I just would not want to see it.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:15 pm


Renkon Root
This pickled vegetable...

Honestly, I think breast feeding in and of itself is disturbing.

... could kick your a** !!


How is it disturbing? It's natural and a very important bonding expirience. The feeling is hard to explain.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:20 pm


Shadows-shine
Shiori Miko
h y p o c h r i s t i
I don't have an issue with mothers who breastfeed in public. I just look away and mind my own business. I'd feel uncomfortable doing it myself, though. I'd prefer to just use a breast pump before I even went out, that way I'd have bottles of milk ready to go. To me, that'd save time and the hassle of messing with clothing and such. This is assuming I even have children one day.

The breast pump doesn't work as well as a baby would in telling your body to make more milk. Plus then the milk would be put in a bottle and you shouldn't give a bottle to a baby until they're about a month or two.

We covered lactation in my summer Nutrition class. sweatdrop


I am thinking that is why my breastfeeding my baby was not successful. The hospital gave her a pacifier and a bottle before she even had a chance to be with me.... stare Plus, my milk production was low to begin with. I tried every thing to get her to nurse and to up production, but in the end to keep her from starving I had to move to formula.


I made a good bit, but my daughter was lazy. She was almost still born so I guess there was a reason for her laziness. My mom was so worried the first week, but she is doing fantastic now. She'll be two in August. I used a pump and usually had three or four bottles in the fridge. Some times I had one or two in the freezer. I'm all for breatfeeding, just maaaybe not in public.
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