Brazillian Woman Denied Abortion Although Fetus Had No Brain | Page 1 | Pro-Choice Gaians | Guild Forums

PhaedraMcSpiffy

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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:37 am

change.org | Women's Rights | Brazilian Woman Forced to Carry Fetus Without a Brain

I've always thought that believe in fetal personhood lacked any rational basis. This is a good example. It's an extreme example, but it seems that for a lot of people think similarly. Like when anti-abortion activists claim that a zygote is a person and deserves equal rights at conception. Why? I've yet to hear a rational argument for that. The justification is always religious or cobbled together from some strange set of superstitions.

In this case, even the "it's a potential person" argument doesn't apply. This fetus will be dead when it comes out. It doesn't even have the potential to become a person. What gives?

PS:
I've heard it argued that the abortion debate is basically a non-issue, like gay marriage, because all opposition comes from religion (or a similar set of person beliefs) and that banning it is favoring/imposing certain religious beliefs. You thoughts?

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:11 am

Technically the fetus will probably be born alive, actually. It's lifespan will be measured in hours or maybe a day or two, but it'll likely be born with a detectable heartbeat and breathing (or at least gasping, which counts for medical purposes) on its own.

Anencephelic cases are just awful all around. This one really sucks for the woman and there are others out there in which hospital are essentially held hostage providing medical care for a child who's never going to get better or have any meaningful interaction and yet his/her parents refuse to sign a DNR. (Google Baby K for the prime case study example.) It really turns my stomach.

And no, the anti-abortion crowd isn't solely a religious movement. It's got some pretty strong roots in religion, but there are opponents who argue from some vague appeal to personhood and inherent worth of human beings a la Ethical Humanist tenets. (Although someone who actually subscribes to that philosophy would be hard-pressed to actually adopt a pro-life/anti-abortion stance given Humanism's rejection of moral absolutes.) But that said, mandating abortion rights and access for women wouldn't be a violation of any religious protections. Divorce is also firmly situated in the U.S. and yet it's decidedly not allowed by certain religions. Just because it's available doesn't mean you have to use it just like how Mennonite communities forgo modern luxuries.

Munkers

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_Morgane Fay_

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Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:34 am

I'm just going to address your PS, because South & Middle American abortion policies... ugh. Can'o'worms.

PhaedraMcSpiffy

PS:
I've heard it argued that the abortion debate is basically a non-issue, like gay marriage, because all opposition comes from religion (or a similar set of person beliefs) and that banning it is favoring/imposing certain religious beliefs. You thoughts?

I'd venture that
A) It being mainly a religious hobby wouldn't by itself necessarily preclude it from being implemented - look at creationism/ID. That's had considerable success despite it being much more openly religiously motivated than pro-lifers are.
B) In my experience, moderate pro-life arguments actually enjoy a lot of secular support. You know, the ones that attempt to frame the debate as just wishing to stop those mythical women from "abusing the system" by "using abortion as birth control" or who are distressed the fetus having a heartbeat or by the possibility of PAS or somesuch nonsensical emotive argument. Living in a highly secular society as I do, the local pro-life groups usually take that route, knowing they'll be ridiculed if they go with the heavily religious woo that's par for the course for US groups.

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:21 am

Munkers

[Divorce is also firmly situated in the U.S. and yet it's decidedly not allowed by certain religions. Just because it's available doesn't mean you have to use it just like how Mennonite communities forgo modern luxuries.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Jailbait Queen

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[Ernie]

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Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:24 am

PhaedraMcSpiffy

PS:
I've heard it argued that the abortion debate is basically a non-issue, like gay marriage, because all opposition comes from religion (or a similar set of person beliefs) and that banning it is favoring/imposing certain religious beliefs. You thoughts?

I would say it is a non-issue politically, not because of religion, but because none of the pro-life arguments I've heard (and I've heard a LOT) are based in actual fact. Gay marriage is similar. I know plenty of atheists opposed to gay marriage. It is a non-issue, not because the opposing side is based in religion (it's not entirely), but because the opposing side is based in bullshit.

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:42 pm

This hits close to home. I aborted because of anencephaly, I would of probably killed myself otherwise . I love babies, but I was raped and the fetus had anencephaly , too much stacked against it for having a lovely life. Not worth it.

I imagine this woman will need lots of help after it, it's frightening to give birth to such a baby .

Sensorium139

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Demon Days

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Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:58 pm

wow, that seems really cruel. making her carry the fetus even though it won't live. that's just horrible.

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:05 am

PhaedraMcSpiffy

change.org | Women's Rights | Brazilian Woman Forced to Carry Fetus Without a Brain

I've always thought that believe in fetal personhood lacked any rational basis. This is a good example. It's an extreme example, but it seems that for a lot of people think similarly. Like when anti-abortion activists claim that a zygote is a person and deserves equal rights at conception. Why? I've yet to hear a rational argument for that. The justification is always religious or cobbled together from some strange set of superstitions.

In this case, even the "it's a potential person" argument doesn't apply. This fetus will be dead when it comes out. It doesn't even have the potential to become a person. What gives?

PS:
I've heard it argued that the abortion debate is basically a non-issue, like gay marriage, because all opposition comes from religion (or a similar set of person beliefs) and that banning it is favoring/imposing certain religious beliefs. You thoughts?

My father hails from Brazil and recently I was visiting relatives. I found their views on abortion appalling. I didn't even bring it up. They all just told me how bad it was and how women should get the maximum sentence in Brazil (30 years) for doing it. It really bothered me.

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