|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:40 am
Did he know before hand that Adam and Eve were going to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Did he know before hand that Abraham would in fact be willing to sacrifice Isaac? This is a discussion we have been having with my room mates grandmother. I would love some in put.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:49 am
Well, we know God's omniscient, all-knowing; every prophecy in the Old Testament that was fulfilled by Jesus would tend to tell us this. But humans aren't all-knowing. I'm thinking things like that were done by God so humans could find out for themselves.
I mean, picking on the Abraham/Isaac situation ... I honestly have no idea how I'd react in Abraham's position (aside from being confused, as I have no kid to sacrifice). Abraham ... found out. God already knew what Abraham would do; he wanted Abraham to know what Abraham would do. And moreover, Isaac found out. Isaac wasn't traumatized, he didn't hate his father ... instead, he thought, "gee, God really is that important".
Or, looking to Adam and Eve ... God said, "don't." He knew it would happen anyway, but He didn't want it to happen. He would rather give us the free will than force them to obey mindlessly.
Just my opinion, of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:00 am
Without a doubt I think God is all knowing.
He knows what we will do before we even know. He also knows what temptations we will face, which is why He always provides us with a way out. However because of "free will" it's up to us what we do with each choice and temptation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:26 am
Gen 22: 11-12
11 But athe angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.”
12 He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld byour son, your only son, from Me.”
Then why did God say "For now I know"?
My personal position is that God's permissive will and desire to allow mans freedom of choice supersede his all knowing. In other words he actively does not discern those choices. In other words just because God can do something, does not mean that he will do it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:23 am
Elysa Roxorbilly Gen 22: 11-12 11 But athe angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 12 He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld byour son, your only son, from Me.” Then why did God say "For now I know"? My personal position is that God's permissive will and desire to allow mans freedom of choice supersede his all knowing. In other words he actively does not discern those choices. In other words just because God can do something, does not mean that he will do it. I'm not sure that the word "NOW" is meant figuratively in that God just found out. I think because He was talking to Abraham that He was saying NOW you have proved to me. In other words Abraham you made the right choice just now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:31 am
I'm inclined to agree with Deidra, though I admit the phrasing there is a bit odd. I'll also say that ... meaning no disrespect or blasphemy ... at times the God represented in Genesis seems a bit ... limited. I don't know if that was because the human understanding of God was limited, or because God was holding back, or what.
Now, in fairness, there is a place in the Gospels where Christ's knowledge seems limited. When He was touched by a sick woman, and she was healed, He asked "who touched Me?", as though He didn't know. But most scholars believe (and I agree) that since Jesus had laid aside the bulk of His power to become human, that included His omniscience; at that time, He honestly didn't know everything. After His resurrection, sure; all knowledge was restored to Him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:44 am
Dragonbait I'm inclined to agree with Deidra, though I admit the phrasing there is a bit odd. I'll also say that ... meaning no disrespect or blasphemy ... at times the God represented in Genesis seems a bit ... limited. I don't know if that was because the human understanding of God was limited, or because God was holding back, or what. Now, in fairness, there is a place in the Gospels where Christ's knowledge seems limited. When He was touched by a sick woman, and she was healed, He asked "who touched Me?", as though He didn't know. But most scholars believe (and I agree) that since Jesus had laid aside the bulk of His power to become human, that included His omniscience; at that time, He honestly didn't know everything. After His resurrection, sure; all knowledge was restored to Him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:57 am
Deidra Diamonds Dragonbait I'm inclined to agree with Deidra, though I admit the phrasing there is a bit odd. I'll also say that ... meaning no disrespect or blasphemy ... at times the God represented in Genesis seems a bit ... limited. I don't know if that was because the human understanding of God was limited, or because God was holding back, or what. Now, in fairness, there is a place in the Gospels where Christ's knowledge seems limited. When He was touched by a sick woman, and she was healed, He asked "who touched Me?", as though He didn't know. But most scholars believe (and I agree) that since Jesus had laid aside the bulk of His power to become human, that included His omniscience; at that time, He honestly didn't know everything. After His resurrection, sure; all knowledge was restored to Him. Hmm ... I never considered it that way, but I suppose it makes sense. A definite possibility.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:02 am
Dragonbait Deidra Diamonds Dragonbait I'm inclined to agree with Deidra, though I admit the phrasing there is a bit odd. I'll also say that ... meaning no disrespect or blasphemy ... at times the God represented in Genesis seems a bit ... limited. I don't know if that was because the human understanding of God was limited, or because God was holding back, or what. Now, in fairness, there is a place in the Gospels where Christ's knowledge seems limited. When He was touched by a sick woman, and she was healed, He asked "who touched Me?", as though He didn't know. But most scholars believe (and I agree) that since Jesus had laid aside the bulk of His power to become human, that included His omniscience; at that time, He honestly didn't know everything. After His resurrection, sure; all knowledge was restored to Him. Hmm ... I never considered it that way, but I suppose it makes sense. A definite possibility.
So to me it only makes sense that He would continue along the lines. Basically He was saying "Look lady speak up and tell them what is possible through faith", without pointing her out and possibly embarrassing her.
In the following verses He also talks about how faith and healing go hand in hand.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:13 am
"Your faith has made you well", yes. And three healings in one chapter (I think exorcism counts as a healing) ... oh, certainly, your theory has merit. I'm not sure I believe it, but I'm also surprised I never thought of it myself before.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:45 pm
I think that God is indeed all-knowing. I'm going to agree with Deidra on this one, moving back to the main topic. God knows us well enough that he knows what we'll do, but he puts us in these situations (say, temptation that he knows we'll choose to give in to) so we can learn from our mistakes. That way, we're stronger than we would be if we never faced such temptations and such.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:04 pm
Ninja43009 I think that God is indeed all-knowing. I'm going to agree with Deidra on this one, moving back to the main topic. God knows us well enough that he knows what we'll do, but he puts us in these situations (say, temptation that he knows we'll choose to give in to) so we can learn from our mistakes. That way, we're stronger than we would be if we never faced such temptations and such.
But in any event He knows us better than we know ourselves and He knows if we will give in or stand firm and He is there to catch us if we fall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:18 am
The greater point with this discussion was, if God knows are choices before we make them, do we even have a choice? Or are we stuck in a Calvinistic predestined state?
I still think that God does not actively seek out all the answers for the sake of allowing us free will. Could he know the answer, yes! He could also make it rain hot dogs and end world hunger, yes! But he does not make it rain hot dogs and end world hunger. I think the tough thing is that it all boils down to faith. Taking that step out and saying "I don't have all the answers but Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!" But it is still fun to talk about. Also it does not in fact use the term Omniscient. The conclusion my husband came to is that to define an omniscient God in our terms is to error. “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not My ways.” [This is] the Lord’s declaration. “For as heaven is higher than earth, so My ways are higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.”—Isaiah 55:8–9
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:50 pm
Are we predestined as the Calvinist's say...I don't think so. But I still believe that God knows what we will do before we do it.
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say about God being all knowing and that it is an error for us to even think or say that He is......... I saw the Scripture you quoted but I really don't understand the application on determining if He is all knowing. Those Scripture just say His ways and thoughts are above ours (hopefully we all know that!).....there is no evidence there (that I can see) that either proves or disproves whether or not God is all knowing, unless I'm missing it...............
David certianly thought He knew everything..
Psalm 139
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:56 pm
This is ... just a hypothesis, but it might answer both sides.
What if God is, to use sci-fi terminology, outside the dimension of time? He wouldn't be subject to the same rules of time as the rest of us (and for Him, a thousand rules and a day could easily be the same), and it'd allow Him to see what choices we make as easily as us watching a TV show.
In this way, His thoughts really would be above our thoughts -- we can barely comprehend multiple dimensions. Yet it would still show Him as moving through time and space to execute His plans.
As for the Calvinism bit ... well, we've got that other thread, so I'm not going to go too far into that right here. But it reminds me of a demotivational poster I found featuring Destiny of the Endless (if you don't know who that is, it doesn't matter) : "Of course you have a choice. I just happen to know what it is."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
