|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:04 am
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn was a fine game. It was fun, it was usually engaging, there were some very good parts, and I played it through to the end. Twice for the second playthrough extras.
However, I believe that it doesn't hold a candle to Path of Radiance. Skrimir shares this notion. There are some head-smackingly stupid aspects of Radiant Dawn that regularly enter my thoughts. The game was nowhere near as subtly written as as PoR, and treats the player like an idiot. It feels like the game thinks very little of it's audience. It had some very well written parts, but those make the low parts of the game look all the more stupid. The gameplay was more difficult, but had some infuriating aspects as well. Sometimes, I feel like this game insults me!
These rants are common talk between Skrimir and I. I brought PoR with me to college for Skrimir to play, and then she played RD with one of our neighbors. Every now and then, we will go back and fourth about things in the game that bother us. Neither of us hate the game, or even dislike it. It just... bugs us. We will use this thread to post our rants as they come and talk about them with FEF.
We will try to keep things intelligent, analytical, and relatively bile-free.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:02 am
I never got a chance to finish RD, but...
I was most bothered by the either uber overpowered laguz or uber underpowered laguz. The only "normal," as in comparable to PoR, laguz was Ranulf (...and I suppose Ulki and Janaff, but I don't remember using them much. And Vika in the one chapter you had her). The royalty could clear out an entire map just themselves, and in some later chapters I at least had to rely on that fact because I was stuck with a divided up team that couldn't hold its own- even though I tried to divy the teams up to be as balanced as they could.
A good thing it had at least was the option to save between turns. Although it made the game a ton easier, it cut down on the frustration and amount of playing time.
...I was also miffed that my data from PoR wasn't able to be transferred, because it was one of many picky files that would freeze up the Wii when you tried to transfer.
All that aside, I didn't like PoR nearly as much as I liked the games before it- which at the time were FE7+FE8. It seemed like a waste to me to make a FE game for a console like GC when it still played through just like a handheld. They could have held off and made it for the DS and I would have been tons happier. RD, being on the Wii, same thing- badly marketed and made for a system that doesn't match up. A game like FE doesn't take any advantage of the system's capabilities.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:19 am
Descending_Angel I never got a chance to finish RD, but...
I was most bothered by the either uber overpowered laguz or uber underpowered laguz. The only "normal," as in comparable to PoR, laguz was Ranulf (...and I suppose Ulki and Janaff, but I don't remember using them much. And Vika in the one chapter you had her). The royalty could clear out an entire map just themselves, and in some later chapters I at least had to rely on that fact because I was stuck with a divided up team that couldn't hold its own- even though I tried to divy the teams up to be as balanced as they could.
A good thing it had at least was the option to save between turns. Although it made the game a ton easier, it cut down on the frustration and amount of playing time.
...I was also miffed that my data from PoR wasn't able to be transferred, because it was one of many picky files that would freeze up the Wii when you tried to transfer.
All that aside, I didn't like PoR nearly as much as I liked the games before it- which at the time were FE7+FE8. It seemed like a waste to me to make a FE game for a console like GC when it still played through just like a handheld. They could have held off and made it for the DS and I would have been tons happier. RD, being on the Wii, same thing- badly marketed and made for a system that doesn't match up. A game like FE doesn't take any advantage of the system's capabilities. If you get a bunch of people killed in Blazing Sword or such, the final chapter would be really, really difficult. Either that, or you would have to get lucky or be amazing. Sure, they give you Athos or Gotoh or whatever, but that one unit didn't make the final chapter winnable. If you screw yourself over in Radiant dawn? They give you all of the freaking Laguz Royals. Ha hah! Who cares about the units you have been leveling up? We've got your team right here! I personally never use more than three royals in the final chapter. Usually two. I like to think that my units mean something. Sure, the team jumping makes it tough to level certain people up, but that's another rant. I didn't really use Laguz in PoR, other than Reyson, Nasir, and the occasional Ranulf or Mordecai. However, Laguz in PoR were very usable. In Radiant Dawn, however, most of the Laguz are pretty useless. They level up like slugs, and even though transformation items are more abundant, you could still be using a better unit that won't sponge up EXP and become useless in a few turns. One of the reasons why the Royals are so good is because they have formshift, so they screw the Laguz system all together! Way to add variety, RD! And yes, there is the transfer glitch. I believe that only happens if you transfer easy mode clear data. Normal and hard mode should be fine. As for not liking PoR as much, I couldn't care less about the system the game was on. I try judge the games by their own merits, although comparison is inevitable. Path of Radiance is my favorite game in the series thus far, with Blazing Sword a close second. Hell, PoR is one of my top 3 favorite games of all time. I'm not gonna lie, that is one of the reasons why RD disappointed me so much. But again, I like and dislike aspects of the game on their own. Talking about what I like about PoR is a different kettle of fish. It isn't a perfect game, but it is my favorite. I'm not gonna talk about it here.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:09 am
Hi guys! Despite what you may think, I have not been a Fire Emblem fan for very long. In fact, I've only played 3 of the games. Two of which I have finished. Those two games are PoR and RD.
As for the contrast? Wow. I say WOW.
I like writing. I do write. I am a writer. So lots of my gripes are from a story perspective.
One thing that bugged me about Radiant Dawn is that it got too big. I like starting out as someone that (while might be important or part of the upper echelon) isn't too vital to the world and suddenly having to screw the rules, social conventions, and raise your own army to combat increasing threats. It starts with bandits, then by the end you're pwning dragons and s**t.
But PoR already ended on that note, so when they made a new game they had to just keep going up and up and up until things get way too big. We've already had our falling action, and a lot of resolutions. But Radiant Dawn tosses all of the closure we already got in PoR to the dogs. Yes, it does expand on and resolve a few more matters, but it opens up so many more issues that don't get resolved or get resolved stupidly.
That, and to support the ever-ramping-up scale of the plot, certain characters get completely ignored. One of the cool dynamics in PoR was between Soren and Titania. Titania was very experienced with the mercenary group, but dealt with issues in a moral or ethical view. Soren was highly educated in battle tactics and excelled in war strategy, but viewed things from a more critical and logical eye. This conflict between them often resulted in the best strategy for the situation. But both of them are silenced to move the plot forward. The plot moves the characters. The characters should move the plot. Soren has to be dumbed insanely down, and Titania rarely speaks, which is funny. Half of the theme is 'is the war wrong,' which is right up her moral-dilemma alleyway. And doesn't she have beef with the Black Knight, too? For owning Greil, who she really liked?
I won't touch on the Dawn Brigade right now. That's a post for another day. But a lot of the characters act the way they do 'just because' and the parts where they don't do that are especially jarring.
Dumb/goofy dialogue aside. Pacing aside. Bland new characters aside. Mary Sue gripes aside. All of that aside. Those are issues for other posts. They chose to use established characters. But why include them when they're just going to not use what they now have in their hands? stare
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:18 am
I prefer RD to PoR. Primarily because of difficulty, but there are quite a few things I don't care for in PoR. It might also have to do with the fact that I played RD BEFORE PoR.
The difficulty is probably one of the biggest reasons, though. PoR is bullshit-easy, like, Sacred Stones easy (if not more so). I consider the fact that they had to dumb down the difficulty for Americans much more insulting than RD's poorly constructed plot at times (and on the note of plot, PoR might not have all the holes that RD does in it, but RD did seem less cliche on a number of levels, which I appreciated). RD wasn't dumbed down for America, and damn do I love it for that fact. It's a lot more fun for me due to the difficulty.
I also love how skills are handled in RD. The fact that you can unequip them from people without them being destroyed is great (and because I played RD before PoR, when I learned you couldn't do the same in PoR I was pretty annoyed). Same for custom weapons - learning I was limited to one per chapter in PoR did not make me a happy player.
I also have to disagree with the idea that Laguz got unbalanced in RD compared to PoR - I think the opposite. The introduction of a vast supply of available Olivi Grass made Laguz much more easily usable then they were in PoR. The fact that you can use Olivi grass while a Laguz is still transformed allows you to ensure you can continue to use Laguz throughout a chapter. And if people want to say that's a waste of money or resources... maybe they shouldn't buy their Beorc units weapons - it's the same principle.
And there are a good deal of perfectly usable Laguz in RD: -Volug (rape offense) -Ulki (rape offense) -Janaff (rape offense) -Ranulf (rape offense) -The Herons, of course -Mordecai (he out tanks Gatrie for the longest time with just his base stats - definitely one of the least appreciated Laguz).
The ones listed above are the most easily usable non-royal laguz (unless you don't consider Skrimir a royal, which can go both ways). But a number of others are usable with more effort, such as Muarim, Lethe, and the like are certainly usable. I'll put it like this: it takes more effort to raise most members of the Dawn Brigade to third tier.
And Bexp made leveling Laguz cake. In fact, it's sometimes the prefered method, since a good number of Laguz have under 300% growths, making the guaranteed 3 stat ups a benefit. Pump Ulki/Janaff/Ranulf to level 30, slap a Satori Sign on them, and they suddenly start becoming some of the best fighters you have, outpacing the majority of the Greil Mercenaries.
I also find the fact that Micaiah's group and Ike's group had to fight each other very enjoyable, and innovative for a FE (even if it detracted from the plot). It's tons of fun killing Micaiah with one of my own units. The switching around makes specific units quite complicated, but overall, I'd say I like it. It gave the game a depth no other FE has.
Of course, I, like many others, don't care for how the support system was changed in RD. THAT irks me. But the new system allows for pacing through the game more easily without having to wait around to build supports up, which is more in tune with my playing style.
I also HATE Micaiah and Pelleas. A couple of dumbasses, those two are.
RD is probably my second favorite FE, behind Blazing Sword. That's mostly from a gameplay, perspective, though. Blazing Sword had EVERYTHING IMO, gameplay, good difficult, plot, character development, etc...
Oh, and Athos CAN solo the end of Blazing Sword. Just throwing that out there.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:41 am
Let me acknowledge that this comes down to what you want to get out of the game. I, like Skrimir, am very story oriented. I loved RD's gameplay. It added a lot, such as height advantage, abundace of transformation items, and an awesome skill system. But it took a lot away too. I want to repeat that I am not fishing for ways to hate the game. I still like it a fair bit.
Admittedly, I am not the best at Fire Emblem. Gameplay wise, I think Blazing Sword can't be beat. Radiant Dawn's difficulty was much higher than that of PoR, but I still found PoR to be a challenge. It wasn't very tough, but I didn't breeze through it. The gameplay was more challenging, but it should work together with the story. The story should be compelling to make you want to play the game, even if the gameplay is more polished. That is the beef I have with Shadow Dragon. This is also why I never speedrun Blazing Sword. Because the story works with everything well and is never boring to me. As long as there is a whole game between me each time. I don't want to see Serra bother Erk three times in a row.
I don't wanna make this post too long, since this isn't a big beef I have. The skill system is wonderful in RD, but when everyone gets an amazing, insta-kill third tier skill, I feel less creative. There were only four occult scrolls in PoR, and you had to choose who to give them to, since skill space was limited. Being able to remove and play with skills is great, but what is with the third tier death moves? Wasn't an extra twenty levels enough to establish that these characters are epic? The team jumping bugged me, and the support system, while good from a tactical standpoint, deserves a rant of it's own.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:51 am
I totally agree. It's a matter of what you value most in FE. I'm sometimes an efficiency b***h, and love a challenge, especially in RD where there aren't support libraries to build. I do rank runs for FE6/7 regularly. Story's definitely important, and definitely detracts from RD, but I like it enough despite the many flaws. I play a lot of games for story, but I play RD for difficulty.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:05 am
Manic Martini I totally agree. It's a matter of what you value most in FE. I'm sometimes an efficiency b***h, and love a challenge, especially in RD where there aren't support libraries to build. I do rank runs for FE6/7 regularly. Story's definitely important, and definitely detracts from RD, but I like it enough despite the many flaws. I play a lot of games for story, but I play RD for difficulty. I ought to ask you for advice in Blazing Sword. I've been having trouble squeezing more exp out of things... But that's aside. I like how your big post in a RANT thread was anti-ranting. Ranting about how good things are as opposed to what you didn't like. But I do agree with you on the Laguz thing, and fighting Micaiah was fun. But I do have to say I would have liked fighting her even more if she was... actually someone I cared about. It would have involved me more. I would have been more 'oh noes, why are we fighting?' rather than 'I hate this b***h, I will kill her and maybe she will go away.' Little things like that. Sure, it's fun to maim someone you hate. But I wish that, to pair with the obvious mechanical improvement in the combat system, the game made me care about what I was doing more. Honestly, when I swapped back to Micaiah and her clowns, I didn't give a damn about them and I found myself wanting desperately to get back to Ike's crew. Even when their characterization that got established in the previous game suffered. It was that unpleasant to fight them. I don't want to take control of someone I don't care about. I want to care about both sides. In the same way you feel bad for the Black Fang and what it used to be, you should feel bad for Bern being buttraped by senators like it was. But you don't. Because you don't care about the people you hold in your hands...
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 8:07 am
Of course, that's not to say I don't value gameplay. Again, Blazing Sword's gameplay, namely its replay value, is a huge reason why I like it so much. Anyone can be good in that game. You can take a number of different approaches, unlock different chapters, and even take the perspective of a different lord, which opens up new chapters and puts new spins on old chapters.
Games like Radiant Dawn don't mesh with the gameplay as well, since certain parts take you out of the experiance. And games like Shadow Dragon can't be saved by it. That game wasn't bad either. Just a bit jarring.
Also, I think you should be allowed to disagree in here. It has to be interesting conversation, and not just bile. In fact, in order to portray my disappointedness, I need to later point out everything the game did right. I can't spew bile. I'll look like an idiot.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:50 am
 All is lost again... But I'm NOT giving in... I will not Bow!I will not Break!I will shut the World Away! It's sorta the same for both of the Wii's Dawn games (RD, and ToSDNW) both have improvements to gameplay at the cost of bad story and other glaring flaws. (RD is less so than DNW, as DNW has very nasty flaws in it). As I'd say, the GCN game is better in both cases- as such PoR.
The killing of support conversations is... ick (made worse by the fact that dummied out data says they were gonna do em, and decided not to). (Shadow Dragon makes SENSE-- FE 1 didn't have 'em.) This comes with a slap to the face of the endings (Um, please tell me why Laura and Aran didn't have an ending?).
(Do NOT get me started on the pairing mess- just don't.)
However, RD does have a few things going for it-- of course, many say "Support" as a gameplay improvement (even if it fails story), I must disagree, the previous support system flowed better in game play, and this one, while freely controllable, unlike the older system, leaves much to be desired both story-wise and tactically, due to the 1 character limitations (I could get farther with B, B, C, than just 1 A)
But one point I must say that RD has going for it, that none of the others do, are the "Fight Yourself" missions (3-7, 3-13, 3-E, and to a lesser degree, 3-6, 3-12)-- while the story portrays these as tragic, they are easily the game's best qualities, due to the "Create-the-Boss" aspect-- played right, a Fight yourself could be a very easy stomp or an exhilarating boss rush blitz on the scale of (In 3-E's case) FE4's Final Holy War-- but unless you did it really wrong (barring 3-6 and 3-12, which, while they have the aspects of "Fight Yourself", are more-or-less multi-mook melees where if you reach the boss it's one of your characters) they're never mundane... Especially not 3-E if you've got a high level Dawn Brigade-- where pretty much every one of them is gonna be a boss and just not a named mook with a pretty face. (Personally, I've seen the DB drop both Skirmir and Tibarn here. That was amazing-- and even though Skirm and Tib were allies, I found myself yelling "SUCK IT" in similar fashion to the time I saw Ethilin kill Trabant all to hell.) Really it's missions like that that are RD's best moments-- and well, they certainly give a point to it, but due to the mundaneness of the story and some other missions they're outweighed.
I will not Fall! I will not Fade! I will take your breath away!
FALL!
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Overlord of Night- Shadow
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:35 am
I'm just going to bring up the ridiculous points that nobody mentioned...
Honestly, the main story wasn't bad imo. I liked the concept, though they really didn't characterize any of the newcomers besides the obvious ones at all. The battles were fun, and I'm a sucker for massive amounts of characters...
That being said, it was little things that annoyed me the most. The voice acting was clearly bottom-of-the-barrel, and a lot of the minor plot details didn't make sense - Zelgius being so loyal to the Senators that he would die for them, for example. It seems to make sense at the time, but once you know he was following Sephiran's orders it falls apart - how would him dying allow him to serve Sephiran at all? The same goes for Sephiran himself; the one who originally CREATED the anti-war pact with the Goddess decides to break it so that he can commit suicide. And.... why couldn't he have just had Zelgius kill him? it doesn't make any logical sense.
But the biggest flaw of the entire game, that everyone should notice.
Tibarn is the Hawk King. But in the CGs, he is a ******** BALD EAGLE WTF
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:02 am
Hey Rath, Guess which one I clicked!
I hate, hate hate hate RD sooooo much.
The no personalities, the mass of characters you don't need, and most of all.
NO SUPPORTS THAT MATTER OR ARE INTERESSTING..... OR AT SOME POINTS EVEN MAKE SENSE.
Actually you know what? Everyone in FEF already knows my opinion on RD.... so I don't even know why I posted this.
Probably just to vote in the poll.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|