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 Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:35 am
So pretty much I had this argument in another forum and almost went from being pro choice to pro life because of a feminist.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:01 am
i see. myself, i have had alot of debates about this, and my opinion has changed twice, not counting the periods of indecision i have had.
now, personally, i just cannot honestly say that i can be comfortable and ok with making abortion a perfectly legal simple choice. i'm disgusted by the idea of killing a child, especially before it has any chance of actually experience the life it has (and you won't convince me that it's not alive. i know better).
i can honestly get on with life and turn a cold shoulder to any teen or adult dieing, because they are old enough to not be innocent any longer. they have a concept of moral values. but a child is yet pure. i can't even stand dead-baby jokes! gonk
now, i believe that then this is a matter of life and death, ad therefore a moral issue. and i believe that woman should not have an abortion unless it poses a serious health risk to either her or the child for her to give birth.
before you get all "how could you/think of the mother's rights/think how unfair it is", i want to say that i don't take this decision of mine lightly. it truely sucks, i know, and i agree. but i'm honestly just partial to the life of a child over the life of anyone else.
in the case where a mother has a definite choice of either her life or the baby's life, she of course would by any law i would make be allowed to choose to have an abortion. my personal emotions on the matter would depend on how close the woman in question is to me.
myself, i was in my mother's womb at a time when she was with a man who cheated on her. and he wanted my mom to abort me. she didn't, and i am lucky to be alive. i have since net Dan (my biological father, and only met him earlier this year), and i have grown from burning hatred to love in just one talk with him. so, this topic does in fact hit home realy hard to me.
i also feel that any aborted fetuses should be used in scientific research (such as stem cell research). any life sacrificed should not be put to waste. you could say that i am extremely pro-life.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:10 am
It is such a tricky subject that one is hard pressed to find one absolute and stick with it without casting someone to the wayside. Personally, morally, I am pro life. I treasure life and children above all else. if given a choice between saving my wife or my children in a housefire, I would save my children first. My wife is under strict instruction to do the same. Not that I have even had to say anything to that end... She is of the same mindset as me.
However... Politically, I am pro choice. NOTE. Pro choice. Not pro abortion. I still abhor the concept of abortion... but I recognize the occasional necessity for it. If the child is the product of rape, incest, if the baby will be born so malformed or handicapped that their lives will be miserable and full of pain, so that they may as well hardly live, save for the fact that they breathe and eat and experience nothing but pain and sadness... in this, an abortion is a mercy. If the mother's life will be in serious jeopardy by carrying a child... in these things I can see the necessity for abortion.
Sometimes life must be ended. Sometimes, it is the only logical, moral choice. I simply pray that neither the Creator nor circumstance ever put me in the position that I must choose.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:19 am
I am pro life. I don't see how some one can be pro abortion and pro life at the same time, because some where some one has to be wrong.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:11 am
It's a female moral issue. I feel that a male, if they have any connection to the baby should have a say and the mother should take it into consideration, but she is the one to go through the birth, a process that's very risky to begin with depending on age and other factors, and she has the last say. So that male better have a hell of an arguement.
But what, you almost went to pro-life, or the other person? And how?
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:12 am
Abortion is a moral issue and a moral issue alone. A fetus is a human life that is biologically unique and complete. Nobody has the right to kill a human being, aside from cases of self defense.
Because killing a human being is objectively wrong, it doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, priest, child, doctor, homosexual, asian, mexican or any other subcategory of human being- NOBODY has a right to kill a fetus. That is why it is absolutely not a female issue, in any way shape or form. The idea that it is is the work of pro-choice propaganda, shifting the emphasis from the destruction of a human life to the right of individual women to make decisions. That's not the real issue at hand.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:37 am
I believe it is a female issue! We do not have the right to tell somewhat they should do to there body, that is very personal for everyone!! Do i think people in general should be more responsible for there sexual actions yes. I do not think abortion should be used as a form of birth control. But then again what i really think doesnt matter because i am not a female and they alone reserve the right to decide what they should do with there health. For far to long women have been enslaved to the notion of shut up at do what you are told its crap! Its a females right plain and simple! just like its my right to smoke myself to death or eat myself to death! Layoff!!!
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:39 am
I really do not see how it could be a female issue. Yes, women are the ones who get pregnant, but it's definitly morality that is in question. Men can choose for a woman to have an abortion, doesn't mean she will because of her morals.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:41 am
divineseraph Abortion is a moral issue and a moral issue alone. A fetus is a human life that is biologically unique and complete. Nobody has the right to kill a human being, aside from cases of self defense. Because killing a human being is objectively wrong, it doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, priest, child, doctor, homosexual, asian, mexican or any other subcategory of human being- NOBODY has a right to kill a fetus. That is why it is absolutely not a female issue, in any way shape or form. The idea that it is is the work of pro-choice propaganda, shifting the emphasis from the destruction of a human life to the right of individual women to make decisions. That's not the real issue at hand. Yet we kill animals quite often, but oh wait we are the holy chosen ones of Universe! Hey you think its wrong you are entilted to that, not your problem then! Move on. Some young girl that has been violated may feel differently!
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:42 am
Ravenblackthorn Goblin I believe it is a female issue! We do not have the right to tell somewhat they should do to there body, that is very personal for everyone!! Do i think people in general should be more responsible for there sexual actions yes. I do not think abortion should be used as a form of birth control. But then again what i really think doesnt matter because i am not a female and they alone reserve the right to decide what they should do with there health. For far to long women have been enslaved to the notion of shut up at do what you are told its crap! Its a females right plain and simple! just like its my right to smoke myself to death or eat myself to death! Layoff!!! And here is a prime example- I don't give a damn about YOUR health when your actions affect YOU. I DO give a damn about the lives of others- Abortion is not like eating or smoking or doing hard drugs because abortion actively kills another human being. It is therefore the death of another human being that is the point of the argument. If freedom is truly the issue, then support legalized murder, theft, slavery and rape- Because why enslave others based on morals? Why keep them from choosing a course of action a human may pick? If it does not matter if another human dies because of it, the next logical step is to legalize these things. Layoff.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:44 am
Aakosir I really do not see how it could be a female issue. Yes, women are the ones who get pregnant, but it's definitly morality that is in question. Men can choose for a woman to have an abortion, doesn't mean she will because of her morals. Thats the point Females should have the right to decide for themselves no one else! If they choose not to then its there choice and vice versa! but no one has the right to tell somewhat to do with there bodies! But i see what you mean.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:45 am
Ravenblackthorn Goblin divineseraph Abortion is a moral issue and a moral issue alone. A fetus is a human life that is biologically unique and complete. Nobody has the right to kill a human being, aside from cases of self defense. Because killing a human being is objectively wrong, it doesn't matter if you are a man, woman, priest, child, doctor, homosexual, asian, mexican or any other subcategory of human being- NOBODY has a right to kill a fetus. That is why it is absolutely not a female issue, in any way shape or form. The idea that it is is the work of pro-choice propaganda, shifting the emphasis from the destruction of a human life to the right of individual women to make decisions. That's not the real issue at hand. Yet we kill animals quite often, but oh wait we are the holy chosen ones of Universe! Hey you think its wrong you are entilted to that, not your problem then! Move on. Some young girl that has been violated may feel differently! We eat animals for sustenance. We kill off members of our own species for convenience. Which seems the more worthwhile cause, to you? But, see my above post- If the life at stake doesn't matter, why not legalize murder?
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:47 am
Ravenblackthorn Goblin Aakosir I really do not see how it could be a female issue. Yes, women are the ones who get pregnant, but it's definitly morality that is in question. Men can choose for a woman to have an abortion, doesn't mean she will because of her morals. Thats the point Females should have the right to decide for themselves no one else! If they choose not to then its there choice and vice versa! but no one has the right to tell somewhat to do with there bodies! But i see what you mean. You're still dodging the point, and quite poorly. You're using flowery words like "With their bodies" and "Choice", magic good-words that imply freedom and happiness. What you are completely covering up is the fact that this choice is to kill a human being. It is not simply a choice to vote or a choice in what to eat or what clothes to wear- It is, specifically, the choice to kill another human being, and this is the problem.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:52 am
divineseraph Ravenblackthorn Goblin I believe it is a female issue! We do not have the right to tell somewhat they should do to there body, that is very personal for everyone!! Do i think people in general should be more responsible for there sexual actions yes. I do not think abortion should be used as a form of birth control. But then again what i really think doesnt matter because i am not a female and they alone reserve the right to decide what they should do with there health. For far to long women have been enslaved to the notion of shut up at do what you are told its crap! Its a females right plain and simple! just like its my right to smoke myself to death or eat myself to death! Layoff!!! And here is a prime example- I don't give a damn about YOUR health when your actions affect YOU. I DO give a damn about the lives of others- Abortion is not like eating or smoking or doing hard drugs because abortion actively kills another human being. It is therefore the death of another human being that is the point of the argument. If freedom is truly the issue, then support legalized murder, theft, slavery and rape- Because why enslave others based on morals? Why keep them from choosing a course of action a human may pick? If it does not matter if another human dies because of it, the next logical step is to legalize these things. Layoff. Ok what if a young girl is raped? Or if it the Mothers life or the childs life during birth-who has the right to make that choice-you? Or the Female in the situation? I would like to think if i was the Lady i want that right? I do not put abortion in the same slot as rape and murder! You would because you are anti-abortion.
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Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:54 am
divineseraph Ravenblackthorn Goblin Aakosir I really do not see how it could be a female issue. Yes, women are the ones who get pregnant, but it's definitly morality that is in question. Men can choose for a woman to have an abortion, doesn't mean she will because of her morals. Thats the point Females should have the right to decide for themselves no one else! If they choose not to then its there choice and vice versa! but no one has the right to tell somewhat to do with there bodies! But i see what you mean. You're still dodging the point, and quite poorly. You're using flowery words like "With their bodies" and "Choice", magic good-words that imply freedom and happiness. What you are completely covering up is the fact that this choice is to kill a human being. It is not simply a choice to vote or a choice in what to eat or what clothes to wear- It is, specifically, the choice to kill another human being, and this is the problem. Look I am not dodging anything i see your point. I just dont feel the same way about it as you do.
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