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Leaf pup

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:49 pm


In this video a christian preacher tries to convince people that pokemon are evil and that it teaches children how to use witchcraft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjHrExOM-ww

Being both a witch and a rabid pokemon fan, i find this very amusing, but i find these sort of attitudes to be frightening.
Your thoughts relating to this?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:05 pm


The Same people who have a U.S.A. flag in the background are telling us that games are the enemy when many of the military Choose gamers to fight for the country. . . Can I throw out the obvious weapons reference in response to this? If I can, that means that he's either supporting the Pokemon indirectly or openly bashing his military. . .

Or am I thinking too much into this?

D_Marx


Satrevi

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:49 pm


What a Christ tard.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:59 pm


yay! someone else mentioned the military for me!! yeah i am in the navy. now i used to play pokemon and actually had a mom and dad who taught it was evil though my mom didnt begin doing it till like four years after we left my dad so she actually played with us before she thought it was evil.she also banned yugioh and magic the gathering.

this video is loading slow so i'm writing the post in segments while watching it. the first paragraph was before i watch any. this is about halfway. this guy is ******** retarded. i mean really? when does pokemon ever teach you to channel psycic abilities? and when do "new age" people which is really just a derogatory term for pagans talk about commanding spirits in a "dark realm"? i mean i astral project all the time. last time i checked its pretty sunny during the day there. lmao

ok one minute later- again really? does this guy even listen to himself? i mean please reaise your hand if youve ever seen someone get stabbed in a pokemon tv show. i mean it never happened. i like one video i'm watching where they show jigglypuff while he says satan is everywhere lmao

ok it just ended with him begining to rant on the evils of internet and cable and everything. i really like this guy. i want to meet him and become his best friend because he is just so enlightened i figure i'd be able to see the devil just like him. lmao

Elfshaman
Captain


Underworld Priestess
Crew

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:08 pm


It is so like the whole Harry Potter thing, people are so ignorant sometimes.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:37 pm


I didn't even watch it because I knew it would just piss me off. The last thing I need is more fuel to hate what people have done with Christianity.

Satrevi


rmcdra

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:21 pm


I didn't watch the video but I've read the arguments against pokemon before. Their arguments show a sheer ignorance of their scripture and clearly can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. It's very similar to the arguments against D&D which again tries to equate pretend and fantasy release with psychological "reprogramming".

And that doesn't even go into how witchcraft, within certain guidelines, isn't disallowed within Christianity. If anyone would like a copy of my Christian Witchcraft argument, I'm willing to share it here.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:40 pm


rmcdra
I didn't watch the video but I've read the arguments against pokemon before. Their arguments show a sheer ignorance of their scripture and clearly can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. It's very similar to the arguments against D&D which again tries to equate pretend and fantasy release with psychological "reprogramming".

And that doesn't even go into how witchcraft, within certain guidelines, isn't disallowed within Christianity. If anyone would like a copy of my Christian Witchcraft argument, I'm willing to share it here.


I say go ahead and post it, it is always good to learn other ideas.

Underworld Priestess
Crew


rmcdra

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:08 am


Please excuse some of the world view remarks made since it was written with a specific audience in mind.
rmcdra

I know some of you may be thinking what does Christianity and witchcraft have in common? Isn't witchcraft/magic/divination all prohibited in Christianity?

Well to address the first question. Witchcraft is just that, a craft. It is not a religion but a practice. Witchcraft within Christianity is useful because it can be used to build and strengthens one's relationship with God, since the source of a Christian witch's gift is the Holy Spirit, which according to my tradition, dwells in everyone and Christians specifically have access to it. It can also help us live the Law of Agape since we are vessels of our God and assist Christians in the highest goal of Christianity, being at union with God.

-The next question isn't witchcraft a no-no within Christianity?
Not at all. The prohibitions against witchcraft stem from two places. Christianity, specifically Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, has issues with superstition. Witchcraft is classified as a type of superstition or at worst viewed as trying to manipulate God's Will. I will leave the believer to decide if they think witchcraft is superstition but witchcraft within Christianity does not try to manipulate, tame, or change God's Will but rather works with it and enacts it though the practitioner.

The next source of prohibition is piss-poor translation and misunderstanding of scripture. I will go through the classic verse(s) used to justify prohibiting witchcraft and show how it's the case described above. Sources for this come from Tea's Guide to Witchcraft in Christiandom, Search God's Word, Blue Letter Bible, and the Polyglot Bible on scared-texts.com

Deuteronomy 18:10-12

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto The Lord: and because of these abominations The Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee."


I will provide the original Hebrew as reference.
Original Text
10 ‏לֹֽא־יִמָּצֵ֣א בְךָ֔ מַעֲבִ֥יר בְּנֽוֹ־וּבִתּ֖וֹ בָּאֵ֑שׁ קֹסֵ֣ם קְסָמִ֔ים מְעוֹנֵ֥ן וּמְנַחֵ֖שׁ וּמְכַשֵּֽׁף׃

‎11 ‏וְחֹבֵ֖ר חָ֑בֶר וְשֹׁאֵ֥ל אוֹב֙ וְיִדְּעֹנִ֔י וְדֹרֵ֖שׁ אֶל־הַמֵּתִֽים׃

‎12 ‏כִּֽי־תוֹעֲבַ֥ת יְהוָ֖ה כָּל־עֹ֣שֵׂה אֵ֑לֶּה וּבִגְלַל֙ הַתּוֹעֵבֹ֣ת הָאֵ֔לֶּה יְהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ מוֹרִ֥ישׁ אוֹתָ֖ם מִפָּנֶֽיךָ׃


First the word used for divination is קֶסֶם which is used also in Proverbs 16:10
Quote:
A divine sentence is in the lips of the king: his mouth transgresseth not in judgment.


Original Hebrew
10 ‏קֶ֤סֶם׀ עַֽל־שִׂפְתֵי־מֶ֑לֶךְ בְּ֝מִשְׁפָּ֗ט לֹ֣א יִמְעַל־פִּֽיו׃

Here we see קסם being used in a positive context. So is "divination" forbidden? No it's only forbidden when dealing with spirits that Judaism considers unclean. Since the Holy Spirit within the Christian witch is source of one's gifts, it is by default a clean spirit.

Next phrase, "observer of times" which is ענן, meaning one who tries "to cover up" or "act covertly". Basically this is referring to false prophets or lying and passing it off as true. This is definitely a prohibition in Christianity.

Next is an "enchanter" which comes from נחשׁ, meaning "to hiss" or "to whisper" which in context is concerning gossiping for one's benefit.

Now on to "witch" which is translated from כּשׁף . The root literally means "to offer prayers or worship". In context this is offering prayers and worship to a God who isn't YHVH. Since there are no other Gods being worshiped or offered prayers to in this system, I confident you don't qualify as this.

"Charmer" is translated from חבר which means "to unite". In context it is uniting through trickery or deceit.

"A consulter with familiar spirits" is from two words שׁאל שׁאל (one who asks) and אוב (wine bottle) which is basically someone who is "drunkenly rambling". In context, it is concerning those who get inebriated improperly and tries to pass their ramblings off as a divine vision or message. I should note that this guide will avoid this issue by not addressing or researching "proper inebriation" other than meditation since I do not support or condone using entheogens.

"Wizard" is ידּעני which is a false prophet or those who deal with unclean spirits.

"Necromancer" is דָּרַשׁ which is a seeker in the contexts of "seeking guidance from unclean spirits".

Next verse,
Exodus 22:18

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Original Hebrew

‏כָּל־שֹׁכֵ֥ב עִם־בְּהֵמָ֖ה מ֥וֹת יוּמָֽת׃ ס


Again we see "witch" is translated from the word כָּשַׁף. So it's not witches but rather a condemnation against Hebrews who made a covenant with YHVH at Mt. Sinai and continued to worship other Gods.

1 Samuel 15:23

For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

Original Hebrew
כִּ֤י חַטַּאת־קֶ֙סֶם֙ מֶ֔רִי וְאָ֥וֶן וּתְרָפִ֖ים הַפְצַ֑ר יַ֗עַן מָאַ֙סְתָּ֙ אֶת־דְּבַ֣ר יְהוָ֔ה וַיִּמְאָסְךָ֖ מִמֶּֽלֶךְ׃ ס


Here we have "witchcraft" translated from קֶסֶם, which is divinating from unclean spirits.

Leviticus 19:26,31

Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times . . . Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.

Original Hebrew
לֹ֥א תֹאכְל֖וּ עַל־הַדָּ֑ם לֹ֥א תְנַחֲשׁ֖וּ וְלֹ֥א תְעוֹנֵֽנוּ׃
-
אַל־תִּפְנ֤וּ אֶל־הָאֹבֹת֙ וְאֶל־הַיִּדְּעֹנִ֔ים אַל־תְּבַקְשׁ֖וּ לְטָמְאָ֣ה בָהֶ֑ם אֲנִ֖י יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶֽם׃


All the terms used here have already been addressed.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Original Greek

19 φανερὰ δέ ἐστιν τὰ ἔργα τῆς σαρκός, ἅτινά ἐστιν πορνεία, ἀκαθαρσία, ἀσέλγεια,

20 εἰδωλολατρία, φαρμακεία, ἔχθραι, ἔρις, ζῆλος, θυμοί, ἐριθείαι, διχοστασίαι, αἱρέσεις,

21 φθόνοι, μέθαι, κῶμοι, καὶ τὰ ὅμοια τούτοις, ἃ προλέγω ὑμῖν καθὼς προεῖπον ὅτι οἱ τὰ τοιαῦτα πράσσοντες βασιλείαν θεοῦ οὐ κληρονομήσουσιν.

There are two words I am going to address here. The first one is heresy which is translated from αἱρέω. This word literally means "to choose". The context here is concerned with choosing to believe something that is not true concerning God and the Christ. It's basically a label that early Christians threw at each other to condemn the beliefs of other sects. Some were rightly so, others were debatable.

The next word related more with our topic is "witchcraft" translated from the word, φαρμακεία, literally meaning poisoner. This is someone who uses herbs/drugs to harm or kill, this action benefits the poisoner, and they are unrepentant for their actions.

Revelations 22:14-15
Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie

Original Greek
14 μακάριοι οἱ πλύνοντες τὰς στολὰς αὐτῶν, ἵνα ἔσται ἡ ἐξουσία αὐτῶν ἐπὶ τὸ ξύλον τῆς ζωῆς καὶ τοῖς πυλῶσιν εἰσέλθωσιν εἰς τὴν πόλιν.

15 ἔξω οἱ κύνες καὶ οἱ φάρμακοι καὶ οἱ πόρνοι καὶ οἱ φονεῖς καὶ οἱ εἰδωλολάτραι καὶ πᾶς φιλῶν καὶ ποιῶν ψεῦδος.

We see "sorcerers" translated from φάρμακος, which is the adjective form of the word previously addressed.

Revelations 9:21
Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Original Greek
21 καὶ οὐ μετενόησαν ἐκ τῶν φόνων αὐτῶν οὔτε ἐκ τῶν φαρμάκων αὐτῶν οὔτε ἐκ τῆς πορνείας αὐτῶν οὔτε ἐκ τῶν κλεμμάτων αὐτῶν.
Again we see "sorceries" translated from φαρμακεία.

Revelations 18:23
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Original Greek
23 καὶ φῶς λύχνου οὐ μὴ φάνῃ ἐν σοὶ ἔτι, καὶ φωνὴ νυμφίου καὶ νύμφης οὐ μὴ ἀκουσθῇ ἐν σοὶ ἔτι· ὅτι οἱ ἔμποροί σου ἦσαν οἱ μεγιστᾶνες τῆς γῆς, ὅτι ἐν τῇ φαρμακείᾳ σου ἐπλανήθησαν πάντα τὰ ἔθνη,
Again we see "sorceries" translated from φαρμακεία.

I think I have now clearly demonstrated that witchcraft is not condemned in Christianity, without having to show how the Leviticus and Deuteronomy Laws don't even apply.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:20 pm


hmmm now to debate whether i should ask for a definition of unclean spirits. because my gaurdian angel's appearance would be considered pretty unclean to some people.

Elfshaman
Captain


Underworld Priestess
Crew

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:31 pm


Elfshaman
hmmm now to debate whether i should ask for a definition of unclean spirits. because my gaurdian angel's appearance would be considered pretty unclean to some people.


You have stirred my curiousity, but I won't ask if you don't want to tell.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:31 pm


It should be unclean regarding the spirit's intentions imo.

Satrevi


Elfshaman
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:39 pm


shadowflameguardian
Elfshaman
hmmm now to debate whether i should ask for a definition of unclean spirits. because my gaurdian angel's appearance would be considered pretty unclean to some people.


You have stirred my curiousity, but I won't ask if you don't want to tell.

i'm fine telling i just fear the judgement of some. but here goes. my angel's name is Rozuriel. He is kinda tall maybe 5'11"ish. he has wings resembling feathered wings but they are black. he wears all black and his eyes have red flames instead of pupils. i told a christian friend that and she questioned whether he was an angel or a demon.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:14 pm


Elfshaman
shadowflameguardian
Elfshaman
hmmm now to debate whether i should ask for a definition of unclean spirits. because my gaurdian angel's appearance would be considered pretty unclean to some people.


You have stirred my curiousity, but I won't ask if you don't want to tell.

i'm fine telling i just fear the judgement of some. but here goes. my angel's name is Rozuriel. He is kinda tall maybe 5'11"ish. he has wings resembling feathered wings but they are black. he wears all black and his eyes have red flames instead of pupils. i told a christian friend that and she questioned whether he was an angel or a demon.

Ahh, if you're looking for doubting Thomas', rabid Christians need only look into a mirror.

D_Marx


Underworld Priestess
Crew

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:21 pm


Elfshaman
shadowflameguardian
Elfshaman
hmmm now to debate whether i should ask for a definition of unclean spirits. because my gaurdian angel's appearance would be considered pretty unclean to some people.


You have stirred my curiousity, but I won't ask if you don't want to tell.

i'm fine telling i just fear the judgement of some. but here goes. my angel's name is Rozuriel. He is kinda tall maybe 5'11"ish. he has wings resembling feathered wings but they are black. he wears all black and his eyes have red flames instead of pupils. i told a christian friend that and she questioned whether he was an angel or a demon.


Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I think he sounds like my type of guide.
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