Is Found Alice Discussion Questions. ^_^

[Alice Rahne]

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

So, while looking up Alice related stuff that I could use for school (of course, it has to be things like these in order to make it work), I found these Alice discussion questions:

http://us.penguingroup.com/static/rguides/us/alice_in_wonderland.html

Sooooo, I thought, for everyone who likes getting in depth of discussion and theory and history and what not, it might be fun to have our own little discussion of these.

(Also, a note to my dear Hattress if she so reads this; this thread and a couple of other - Alice Literature Geeks Unite, Real World Parallels in Wonderland - might soon deserve a subforum, strictly for Alice in depth discussions, so they don't clog up the main forum? Just a thought. That is, of course, if anyone takes the time to actually start discussing them...which is why I thought these questions might be helpful and fun! =D I do so love talking about it. ^_^)


Buuuutttt yeah, if anyone wants to start expressing their ideas on it, here goes question one!! And I'll Post each question every week or two for the next 11-22 weeks depending on how long it takes everyone to talk about them (if they want to, of course).


QUESTIONS ONE
1. Traditionally, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass are both considered stories intended for children. If you were asked to support the contention that these are actually stories for adults, how would you defend this?


And I leave you all at it. ^_^ I am off for the night, and shall post my thoughts on this later today when I'm home. LATER!

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

 

[Alice Rahne]

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

Not to mention all the lessons he made fun of by botching them; he could have been using that as an aim to show the adults how useless their teach method were for young children. And her identity crisis when she couldn't remember these lesson between whether or not she was Alice to show adults how much pressure they put on children for useless things. Personally, these, coupled with the fact that throughout Alice's adventures she STAYS a child and doesn't instantly become a young adult, showing adults that kids are just kids, allow me to believe that if he intended it for adults, it would have been to help them better understand children and their own futility at raising and teaching children effectively and practically.

@Wolfie: Thank you, very much. ^_^

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

 

[Alice Rahne]

wonderful cheshire

I totally agree with that, It seems that there is much violence, well kinda, and the fact that there is absolum(sp?) and if I remember correctly he is smoking opium? Or maybe that's just my mind making things up. But on the other hand, there is always the good vs bad and the good wins. That's always been a child's fairy tell. In a sense it appeals to both older and younger people.

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

No, you're partially correct. Absolem itself is the name invented just for Burton's movie, the Caterpillar never had an actual name in the book, but yes, he smoked a hookah, which is a very adult habit, and most adults then smoked opium and hookahs.

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

 

[Alice Rahne]

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

Wonderful! ^_^ Seems everyone agrees that the main reason it could have been written for adults was to help them realise how uselessly they teach children, and it's unanimous that the hookah smoking Caterpillar plays part in the adult oriented theme and intended direction of the book.

Question Two
Alice Liddell, the model for Carroll's fairy tale heroine, was a young child when these stories were first told. Although a child in the story, Alice often exhibits mature characteristics; and the adult characters often exhibit childish behavior. Do you consider these books to be an adult's view of childhood, or a child's view of adulthood?

*NOTE*: I'm gonna be in Savannah, Georgia for the next week, I'm leaving today. A close family friend's Dad is getting remarried Wednesday and I'm staying with them as a guest on the groom's side. ^_^ So, If I'm only on to check and I don't reply much, that's why (getting ready to leave today is also why I haven't replied much recently, as well. lol).

Aaaaaaand GO! XD

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

 

[Alice Rahne]

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

Personally, I believe neither of these views were intended, but it's Carroll's view of adults and children in British Victorian Society as a whole. Bringing up the whole lessons are useless thing again, I think it might be Carroll's way of seeing how much more mature children were than what the adults in society gave them credit for by treating them like infants with nonsense and how immature the adults were by not using their heads and knowing what they were doing with their children, acting like infants themselves in not taking care of children properly and underestimating them.

Though, it could possibly be both of the mentioned views in the question. A child's view on adulthood, because when she saw the Caterpillar he was very easily offended, and the Red Queen, he was unreasonable, and the Duchess, well was very ugly and wrinkly. So, it could be a child's view of adulthood as all sorts of chaos that she'd rather not come to any time soon, which would be her waking up, to get away from the fears of adulthood.

However, as an adult's view on childhood, it seems to me it would have to be Carroll's direct view of childhood, considering it's his writing and would of course be heavily influenced by the way he sees things, and that Carroll would view childhood as something to be cherished and that childhood should be used as a time to explore and question things and find out more about yourself and the world around you and not just do only what you're told, but what excites you and catches your interest a well because when you're an adult, you'll have responsibilities and not always have time to do all the fun things.

*NOTE: Sorry I was gone so long. >.< I had my friend's dad's wedding in Savannah, Georgia and I was up there living with them for a week and just got home Sunday and I've been cleaning and making up school work ever since. ^_^; But I'm back now! Haha..

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

 

[Alice Rahne]

If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense.
Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't.

Well I suppose if everyone who wanted to talk about Question Two is done, then I do believe that it's time for the next one!

Question Three
Alice rarely speaks nonsense and rarely enjoys it when it is spoken to her. In fact, her speech and manners are as proper as those of any Jane Austen heroine. How is Alice's perception of the world changed when confronted with the world and characters of nonsense?


Fire away, Wonderlanders. ^.^

And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be.
And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?

 

[Alice Rahne]

D:
No one's discussing the discussion questions anymore!!!!!
T.T
I am saddened by this sudden lack of interest!
Waaaah~

I wanna say her perception of the world is changed because due to all of the nonsensical characters she encounters and has to deal with, she usually ends up seeing that she has to be the mature and sensible party and if there are those who are unwilling to help her, she has to drop them and focus on what she's intended to do. Personally, I think this makes her quite adult in her attitude and mind set, indirectly changing her perspective to that of an adult having to deal with rucks, rowdy children and having to work around them.