|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:25 am
(If I have misplace this thread, just inform me, I thought it better fit in Food/Drinks since it's about a type of 'food.')
((I am a vegetarian, have been for a few years & I did not hear of these facts until a few months ago.))
Okay, not too long ago, I happen to stumble upon this statements:
1. "The vegetarian diet may reduce the risk of suffering from cardiovascular disease, cancer, sclerosis, obesity, and may slow down the aging process. The human anatomy is not carnivore since the digestive system is designed for cereals, vegetables, and fruits, according to scientists."
So, in my nature, I will start researching about the statements and find more details onto it.
We are in fact more similar to other herbivores and beyond different from carnivores and omnivores [legit], our [humans] "omnivorism" means we are capable of eating meat but our bodies aren't designed to be eating as a normal [nor needed] part of our diets. Our saliva, teeth, stomach acid, and intestines are similar to other plant-eaters, and dissimilar to carnivores and omnivores, not only that but among animals, plant-eaters have the longest lifespan, no doubt humans are part of that category, we sleep about the same amount of time as herbivores. And did you know the most common cause of chocking to death on your food is eating meat? Carnivores and omnivores don't have a problem with their food. The claim that states have always been eating meat may as well not be true, considering I read about how our early ancestors from at least four million years ago, were almost exclusively vegetarian.
Yes, so I know what you're thinking - we are told we have canine teeth, but the human's "canine teeth" are nothing similar of an actual canine's [theirs are really long and really pointed.] Our teeth is not that long nor that pointed, considering that being, we have teeth more like gorillas and horses, which are vegetarian animals.
Alright, let's look at it an easy way. Carnivore [Meat eaters] Claws, no pores on skin, long pointed&sharp front teeth, no back flat teeth, small saliva glands, acid saliva, strong hydrochloric acid, and intestinal tract only 3 times body length.
Herbivore [Plant eaters] No claws, millions of pores on body, no sharp pointed front teeth, back flat teeth, well-developed salivary glands, alkaline saliva, stomach acid 20 times weaker, and intestinal tract several times body length.
Humans No claws, millions of pores on body, no sharp pointed front teeth, back flat teeth, well-developed salivary glands, alkaline saliva, stomach acid 20 times weaker, and intestinal tract several times body length.
So, considering the fact that humans were not made to actually eat meat, it does causes health problems [more you eat, sicker you get] such as, heart disease, cancer, diabetes [etc]. If it was natural to humans, it wouldn't destroy our health.
Figured if you guys didn't know this information fact yet you'd guys like to hear about it (I think everyone here doesn't eat meat? I would assume since it's an eco-friendly guild, lmao.)
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:28 pm
It seems to be a common misconception that you must be vegan or vegetarian to be a part of this guild. It's an eco-friendly guild but not necessarily a vegan one, however being that is more than welcome here.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:31 am
I would like to see the source for your information. It sounds like a load of vegetarian hype. Show me the peer reviewed scientific journal that states that. Please.
I do eat meat, this whole vegetarian godliness you're all promoting is childish and the context which you hold omnivores is blatantly rude.
Just because you're 'eco-friendly' by being a vegetarian does not mean you're better to the planet. To be frank I do not believe that you ARE more eco-friendly.
I am well aware that the corporate meat industries have HUGE carbon offsets in raising, caring, processing, and transporting their products. So does the planting, harvesting, pesticide use, and transporting of those 'oh holy vegetables'. With giants like Monsanto, which tells the farmers to destroy mountains of corn because they don't want the food economy to be ******** with. They are manically happy creating their product and controlling our economy through it.
No, you are not more eco-friendly. If you want to sit on a high horse and spout out farce, at least have the gonads to buy locally. I don't care that the fruits and vegetables are out of season, vegetarianism was your decision. So eat roots, salted vegetables, pickled vegetables, and preserved fruits.
Winters I eat more grains, meats, and roots, because that's what the co-op has for local food. Being a vegetarian does not make you a eco-friendly person. Supporting local agriculture and buying consciously among other things makes you a 'eco-friendly' person.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:09 pm
Zurine I would like to see the source for your information. It sounds like a load of vegetarian hype. Show me the peer reviewed scientific journal that states that. Please. I do eat meat, this whole vegetarian godliness you're all promoting is childish and the context which you hold omnivores is blatantly rude. Just because you're 'eco-friendly' by being a vegetarian does not mean you're better to the planet. To be frank I do not believe that you ARE more eco-friendly. I am well aware that the corporate meat industries have HUGE carbon offsets in raising, caring, processing, and transporting their products. So does the planting, harvesting, pesticide use, and transporting of those 'oh holy vegetables'. With giants like Monsanto, which tells the farmers to destroy mountains of corn because they don't want the food economy to be ******** with. They are manically happy creating their product and controlling our economy through it. No, you are not more eco-friendly. If you want to sit on a high horse and spout out farce, at least have the gonads to buy locally. I don't care that the fruits and vegetables are out of season, vegetarianism was your decision. So eat roots, salted vegetables, pickled vegetables, and preserved fruits. Winters I eat more grains, meats, and roots, because that's what the co-op has for local food. Being a vegetarian does not make you a eco-friendly person. Supporting local agriculture and buying consciously among other things makes you a 'eco-friendly' person. wink biggrin
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:27 pm
Your stomach has acid because it is designed to break down FOOD. Food is whatever you consume to provide fuel for your body and metabolism. You can't tell me that a caveman didn't go about eating plants above the head of a Brontosaur all the time. I eat a balanced diet and exercise regularly. In addition to salads, could never see myself not eating fish and meat in my daily lifestyle. Limiting yourself to what you want to eat is all up to you. If you were traumatized from seeing an animal being slaughtered, I can understand. However, if you were stranded out in the wilderness and vegetation was scarce, that nice rabbit caught in your snare would be a nice meal ... Among other horror related vegetarian stories, that news story a long while back still bothered me. It was about the a baby that died from being fed soy milk instead of regular breast milk. Article here
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:01 pm
There's something very different between subsistence and luxury, which many people don't seem to grasp, and it's detrimental to our planet's well being, and something I find a little morally questionable.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:00 pm
Since your argument relies on external traits to get your message across, I have provided pictures of one each: a Carnivore, an Omnivore, and a Herbivore. Which one do you most look like?


|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:46 pm
misfit baby 1. "The vegetarian diet may reduce the risk of suffering from cardiovascular disease, cancer, sclerosis, obesity, and may slow down the aging process. The human anatomy is not carnivore since the digestive system is designed for cereals, vegetables, and fruits, according to scientists."Can you please tell me how it is we're so adapted to eating grain, which we only started eating in significant quantities since the agricultural era, but yet not adapted to eating meat, which we've been eating for 2.5 million years? Quote: We are in fact more similar to other herbivores and beyond different from carnivores and omnivores [legit], our [humans] "omnivorism" means we are capable of eating meat but our bodies aren't designed to be eating as a normal [nor needed] part of our diets. Thanks to modern agriculture, many of us can actually get by without resorting to animal foods. But this is pretty recent. Quote: Our saliva, teeth, stomach acid, and intestines are similar to other plant-eaters, Herbivores have a pH of 4-5. Carnivores have a pH of 1. Humans stomach acid is around 2-3, right in the middle. Also, our stomachs release extra acid for meat.Quote: ...not only that but among animals plant-eaters have the longest lifespan Nope. It's more scattershot. It's currently believed that the longest-lived animal may be the bowhead whale.Quote: And did you know the most common cause of chocking to death on your food is eating meat? Carnivores and omnivores don't have a problem with their food. I had a kitten that choked to death on meat. sad Quote: The claim that states have always been eating meat may as well not be true, considering I read about how our early ancestors from at least four million years ago, were almost exclusively vegetarian. Four million years ago, our ancestors were non-human primates. The genus Homo has always eaten meat. Quote: Yes, so I know what you're thinking - we are told we have canine teeth, but the human's "canine teeth" are nothing similar of an actual canine's [theirs are really long and really pointed.] Our teeth is not that long nor that pointed, considering that being, we have teeth more like gorillas and horses, which are vegetarian animals. The reason we don't have big sharp teeth is because our ancestors discovered a different trick to getting meat - using their forelimbs. Quote: So, considering the fact that humans were not made to actually eat meat, it does causes health problems [more you eat, sicker you get] such as, heart disease, cancer, diabetes [etc]. If it was natural to humans, it wouldn't destroy our health. Anthropology has shown that people who ate even large quantities of meat were quite healthy until sugar and flour were introduced into their diets. Quote: (I think everyone here doesn't eat meat? I would assume since it's an eco-friendly guild, lmao.) I eat meat due to being unable to cope with grains on a very large scale.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:21 pm
You compared us to gorilla...but we more resemble (genetically) chimps. Chimps can and will eat anything they can get their hands on. Yes, they eat more fruit and vegetables than meat because bananas are easier to catch. They still need meat though. We tend to over eat meat. That does cause a problem. It, however, is not healthy to completely remove it. I actually have some friends who are vegan, and they had a baby and their paediatrician had slap the carrot eating smiles off their faces when their kid came up with malnutrition because they thought they could feed him a vegetarian diet. Once we reach maturity we can substitute vegetable proteins for animal ones. But you should never forget that you are substituting. Btw, more power to you on being a vegetarian, I have nothing against it. Leaves more meat for me.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:36 am
I have a slightly related interesting story about choking. When I was little, about four years old, during a family dinner I did choke on a piece of meat from a roast. My grandfather had to give me the old-timers Heimlich Maneuver which was a hard pat on the back and it came out and I was fine. After that I didn't choke again for a lonnng time. Actually it was about 25 years.
Last summer I was eating only food from my garden and breads and rice. While having lunch one day I aspirated a tomato seed which became lodged in my right lung. I haven't had it removed and as you might know there is no way for it to come out by itself or just pass through. I've had trouble with it ever since, having pneumonia twice and scar tissue has formed around it. There's nothing that can be done apart from surgery.
After that I found myself choking on rice twice. This was all within a single summer! Luckily the rice came out my nose and didn't go down my trachea but after the tomato seed I was scared out of my mind that it would happen again.
I don't know why I choked so much during the most self-sustainable and locally-grown eating phase of my life to-date which was vegetarian for at least three months, and I'm sure they have nothing to do with one another, but I think the small pieces of seed and grain are a very real danger that we don't often think about. Aspiration can do a lot more long term damage than choking, assuming you get the lodged, choked on food out in time.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:08 pm
I would also like to add to the teeth discussion since teeth seems to always be neglected. Our incisors are used to tear foods our molars are to grind food. You are right in the way that the back of our teeth are similar to herbivores. What you forgot or did not know is that our teeth are NOT built for long periods of eating just vegetables, fruits and grains. Our teeth represent more of a omnivore. Herbivores teeth are often flatter because of the silica and cellulose in plants. But animals say like cows are continuously replacing their enamel to withstand the pressures of plant materials, humans do not have this mechanism to protect our teeth. Carrots is a friendly food but if you consume carrots on a regular basis, your only worry isn't that your skin will turn yellow or orange but your teeth will wear down and become soft.
Our teeth have more ridges but are still flat, so that stands that we are able to grind plant and meat products.
And human teeth are widely ranged among people. Those of Asian decent have shovel like groves in their teeth and are smoother than others which is similar to herbivores. Here think about their diet. Their main staple of food is grain. Rice. Their usual meal consists of the main dish is grain, their larger appetizer is fruit or vegetables then meat. Though it is possible to survive for a period of time without meat our bodies are programed to depend on meat for the amino acids that our bodies are unable to produce that is why we eat meat to obtain those amino acids and proteins we can not produce.
Yanueh brings up a good point about agriculture. Before that time our ancestors relied primarily through hunting and gathering, that human behavior supports that we relied on plant produce but the humans needed to supplement their diet with meat. Especially when it came to the colder seasons the main foods then are meat. Once agriculture started up our species's teeth started to soften because of the excess of sugars we were getting in our diet (grains and fruit) and a higher dependence on plants material than hunting.
You can say that humans are more closely related to herbivores, I don't have big problem with it, I somewhat agree with it,(appendix and cecum), but to say we are more of an herbalist than an omnivore is toeing the line, since our species DOES NEED MEAT TO SURVIVE AND LIVE PROPERLY. Without meat we lack a plethora of minerals, nutrients and proteins.
If you bring up chimps and gorillas and other primates, they eat a lot of plant material but they have been observed eating meat...and insects count towards the 'meat' end of the stick I believe.
But do not make me as a vegetarian hater. All my meals today were fruit and vegetables. I felt a lack of it. But then again last week I had meat in all my meals because I felt a lack of it.
And no need to go into the alternatives of protein, a majority of those foods I am unable to consume...safely.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:53 pm
Koren-the-Phoenix You compared us to gorilla...but we more resemble (genetically) chimps. Chimps can and will eat anything they can get their hands on. Yes, they eat more fruit and vegetables than meat because bananas are easier to catch. They still need meat though. We tend to over eat meat. That does cause a problem. It, however, is not healthy to completely remove it. I actually have some friends who are vegan, and they had a baby and their paediatrician had slap the carrot eating smiles off their faces when their kid came up with malnutrition because they thought they could feed him a vegetarian diet. Once we reach maturity we can substitute vegetable proteins for animal ones. But you should never forget that you are substituting. Btw, more power to you on being a vegetarian, I have nothing against it. Leaves more meat for me.
That is a chimp.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:51 pm
Vanilla eXee Koren-the-Phoenix You compared us to gorilla...but we more resemble (genetically) chimps.
That is a chimp. wink
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 9:37 pm
Yanueh I eat meat due to being unable to cope with grains on a very large scale. Ah, you and me both. 3nodding In fact, since you pointed out stomach acidity, mine is such that I can't digest "unbroken" (dehydrated, boiled, pureed, masticated, etc.) fibrous plants. No salads for me, but I can eat starchy/fatty things like bananas and avocados fine. As it happens, my body is sensitized to lack of meat, since it's a larger part of my diet than it is for others. Protein deficiency hits fast with shaking and lethargy. I'm also more affected by sugars, because it's hard to fit naturally complex sugars into my diet. And I'll admit my immune system isn't great. In other words, I feel keenly the lack of nutritional balance this way. However, I am otherwise in good health. My blood pressure is low, a little dangerously, which often thought to be a problem experienced by more vegetarians than carnivores as it's associated with amino deficiencies. But it's better low than high. I have no trouble with my weight, it regulates itself well with little effort from me and I'm only a little overweight. I can sustain my energy throughout the day better than most of my family. I'm fairly strong without exercising. My posture is good. I have good reflexes. The point is, regardless of whether we are vegan, vegetarian, omnivore or carnivore, humans all have a mix of weaknesses and strengths. How well we manage the diet we choose or are obliged to has more to do with our general health than the selection of diet itself has. I'd like to attach a further note to those who are vegetarian or vegan for moral reasons, too: Take note that plants are alive. They are known to form interacting communities. They ally with each other, they attack each other. They feed on microorganism animals like mites. If animals are perceived worthy of life because they can act with intelligence, do these behaviors of plants seem less intelligent? They do not have centers of information processing like complex animals have, but plants are at least as capable of responding to stimuli as the average cephalopod. And as was pointed out by someone else, the harvest of plants is no less damaging environmentally than meat production. Hell, the single largest food product on earth is corn, which is also the most offensive tool in the manufacture of unhealthy foods.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:02 am
Vegetarians might be at less of a risk for cardiovascular disease because they don't consume massive amounts of red meat every week. But that doesn't prove that meat is BAD. Everything in excess can be bad. If someone said that vegetarians are at greater risk of amino acid deficiencies you would likely argue that the studies are based off people who do not properly balance their diet and make up for those essential fats they would normally be getting when they ate meat.
I am currently studying anatomy and it seems to me that our classification as omnivores is correct. We have the teeth, and digestive enzymes required to digest meat. But wether we are closer to carnivores or herbivores, I am not convinced either way. For example, dogs are actually omnivores. However they are much closer to carnivores because they require a lot more meat, something like 60-70% of their diet should be meat.
I would think, since our digestive tract is not as short or acidic as a dog, that we would require even less meat than that. Considering we have to cook our meat to be able to consume it without getting disease, it seems hard to believe that our ancestors would have eaten much meat. On the other hand, our cecum, where plant material is digested is much, much smaller than that of a true herbivore.
I have spoken to my lab technician about this, and she is as confused as I am. Telling me that a variety of foods is generally the way to go, because our bodies are so weird, you could easily debate either way.
What we do know, is that feces, is the undigested portion of your food. Therefor, large amounts generally mean your diet is not the best, or it could also be that you tried something new and your cells have not had a chance to produce the enzymes needed to digest that particular substance. But in dogs, we can usually tell if the diet they are on is good for them by the amount and texture of their feces. Seems gross, but, it's true. We call a cats litter box the "message box of health".
I for one try to eat very little meat. I know there are other ways to get the protein and essential fatty acids and I also know that I tend to eat more veggies and fruits and legumes when I'm not filling myself up with meat.
|
 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|