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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:30 pm
I struggle a lot with talking to my mom about certain biblical truths, and I'm afraid that I'm just not spiritually equipped enough to make my point clear. For instance, the bible clearly talks about the dangers of money. But when I bring that up, she gets really defensive and argues things like "God can use a person's money" or "Oh! So Christians just aren't ever supposed to have any fun? We're supposed to be poor and dress in rags?". She's so adamant that only 10% belongs to God. Even though Deuteronomy 8:18 and 10:14 indicates that everything belongs to God. Every penny we make is Gods money. And it's only because of God that we were able to earn that money to begin with.
She takes things to such an extreme and won't listen to a word I try to say, no matter how soft or kind my voice is. And honestly, I just don't know how to talk to her. It's very frustrating. I pray to God for the right words, but that never brings about a different result.
What should I do? How should I word things?
You know, I try to be a good Christian. I try to stand up for God and His truths. But when I do, nobody listens to me. It's like I'm just wasting my breath on them. It's so frustrating! It's not like I'm trying to preach or that I'm judging them. I'm simply repeating what the bible says! Nobody listens!
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:51 pm
i agree. Everything does belong to God. but... God allows your mother to make money, he entrusts her with that money to spend on how she sees fit. God gives that money to your mother and while everything essentially belongs to God, the money is also your mothers - given to her. her health is also given to her from God so that she can be able to continue to work..
Money in and of itself isn't evil or dangerous or sinful. the LOVE of money is what is wicked and is the root of all evil,not money but the love of money. having money his fun, shopping is fun, having our needs met is comforting and is a good feeling. do you think your mother loves money? does she do wicked things in order to get it? does she take from the poor? Does she recognize that God is blessing her when she has enough money for the things that she needs?
and even as far as 10% - i think that was an old testament ceremonial law for the Israelites. In the new testament we are told to give as we purposeth in our hearts. Honestly, i am not too clear on how much we are suppose to give or if the tenth is still something we're expected to give. there's a few beliefs out there and some teach that your finances are basically cursed if you dont give 10%. i believe that God will give unto those who give -
as far as how to talk to people - well... i would say it's probably not a good idea to point out to people the areas in their life that you feel they need to work on in order to be a better Christian. Allow the Holy Spirit to speak to their hearts instead. Pray for people, pray alot for them. be kind to them and offer to help them, but pointing out their sins is going to turn them away from you.
when you have children of your own you can insist that they live according to the bible, but you can't really expect your mother to accept you as an authority on how she spends her money.
hope this helped. heart heart
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:05 pm
My mom doesn't have a job, though. And she uses all her money to buy alcohol because she's a severe alcoholic. I pray for her and talk to her, but she won't go to church.
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:40 pm
Takahashi_Natsumi My mom doesn't have a job, though. And she uses all her money to buy alcohol because she's a severe alcoholic. I pray for her and talk to her, but she won't go to church. ahhh.. then she is addicted. her body is physically dependent on alcohol and severe alcoholics can die from detoxing if not under close medical care while coming off of it. so.. it's really not in her power to be able to quit spending money on alcohol right now. She needs God and a medical physician too. so like i said before, pointing out her sin and weaknesses to her aren't going to do much good for her. i'm not sure how to help with this as i've never had to take the steps to help/force someone quit an addiction/physical dependency. i know alcohol is absolutely horrific. everyone suffers when there's an addict. i would probably cry out to God every day, pray and fast. and if i could, i would get away from the addict. they need to know that people aren't going to be around to help them because that just enables them to stay in their addiction. i'll be praying for you and your mom. heart heart
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:51 pm
Quote: Money in and of itself isn't evil or dangerous or sinful. the LOVE of money is what is wicked and is the root of all evil,not money but the love of money. having money his fun, shopping is fun, having our needs met is comforting and is a good feeling. do you think your mother loves money? does she do wicked things in order to get it? does she take from the poor? Does she recognize that God is blessing her when she has enough money for the things that she needs? She's constantly worried about her finances because my dad doesn't have a job and she doesn't really have one, either. If she would just trust God to satisfy her needs, she could be free from all the worry. I mean, worry is a sin anyway. Also, I never said money was evil. I never said anything about my perspective on money. All I know is what Jesus says about money. And I know that my attitude in life is not to seek profit or forms of treasure that rot away with time. I strive to be the kind of person who could own absolutely nothing and still know that I'm okay because Christ has me covered. Quote: as far as how to talk to people - well... i would say it's probably not a good idea to point out to people the areas in their life that you feel they need to work on in order to be a better Christian. Allow the Holy Spirit to speak to their hearts instead. Pray for people, pray alot for them. be kind to them and offer to help them, but pointing out their sins is going to turn them away from you. Well, if a person is living in sin, it's not okay to let them just keep sinning without saying anything to them. But you should pray first. Quote: when you have children of your own you can insist that they live according to the bible, but you can't really expect your mother to accept you as an authority on how she spends her money. I don't tell my mom how to spend her money. I was giving an example of how she doesn't listen to the things that I say. Despite being 20 years old and moved out of the house already, I do still view her as an authority figure. And I greatly respect her. But I know that she's making a lot of bad choices that are affecting her walk with God. And it just breaks my heart to watch her deteriorate.
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:40 am
Ah, Natsumi; it's been a while.
I hate to point this out, but as far as your mother respecting your authority is concerned ... give up. Parents always, always, keep thinking of their kids as the ones who were pooping their diapers not so very long ago. It's not that we can't be authorities on some subjects, and even called upon for our knowledge, but (at best) they'll still consider us "equal, but distant" ... or, more likely, still just juniors.
For example, I've been out of my parent's home for ... well, a lot longer than you. And my parents and I are always on good terms. They've honored me by calling me for help from time to time, from dismantling a pump to helping them write college papers (back when I was in junior high!). But that's all. They still consider me a junior. They acknowledge that I have more recent experiences in things, and in fields where they have no experience, but that's it.
Plus, if your mom's an addict ... she's not going to want to listen to you. Not to you, not to your dad, not to your grandmother, not to anyone.
Now, you want the good news? Yeah, you probably do.
(1) There's somewhere in the Bible (I can't recall exactly, and so I can't quote exactly) where we find something to the effect of, "If someone's on the wrong path, and you don't tell them, then their fate is your fault. BUT, if you talk to them and they choose not to listen, then what happens is their fault; your hands are clean". You've tried to talk to your mother, she's chosen not to listen ... thus, your hands are clean.
That's no excuse to give up on her, of course; it's just removing your personal blame.
(2) Your prayers are working. They're working. God's working on her, right now, even as I type this. But she and Satan are fighting back; that's why she's not hearing you. Still, if the fight's between God and Satan ... which one would you bet on? My money's on God.
So stay on your knees; that's where the best fighting is (and my sensei would laugh so hard if he read that). The more you pray, and the more you keep that desire for her welfare in your heart, the more God's going to work on her.
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:16 pm
after learning that neither of your parents are working right now i think it makes perfect sense that your mom is always worrying about money.
and just because someone stops worrying about money, does not mean that God is going to begin providing for them. We must "seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness" for things to be added unto us.. your mom clearly does not seek first the kingdom of God. Gods word also talks about not having needs met if one doesn't work. i dont know the circumstances as to why your Dad doesn't have a job so... i dont know, i know that the economy is really super bad right now.
she's reaping what she's sewn. this is a law of God, God will not be mocked. she has sewn unto herself corruption and is reaping the destructive harvest.
so as far as helping her get out of this cycle of destruction i suggest that you stop bringing up her sin to her. if you want to have a conversation with her, make it something that isn't going to irritate her. give her a chance to talk about whatever she wants to talk about, listen to her, give her your attention w/out turning it into a sermon. let her know you love her. she probably is already fully aware of her sinful ways.
your mom needs faith in Christ Jesus. in order for one to get faith, they need Gods word. you can leave pamphlets at your parents house for them to read. give her a tape to listen to. start memorizing bible verses and and set goal dates for when the verse is to be memorized and then be like "Mom, i'm supposed to have this verse memorized by Friday" give her your bible to read along while you recite the verse. This way, she'll be getting Gods word, she'll be feeling like a mother because she's helping you and you will benefit greatly from it as well.
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:21 pm
1) But I don't view myself as an authority figure. My mom doesn't think I am either (nor does she think that I think I'm an authority figure). Why would any of us think that? That's not right at all.
2) Personal blame is the last of my concerns when it comes to my mother's fate. I simply love my mother beyond imagination (but not more than God, of course). I don't want to watch her as she makes her life harder for herself. Of course I can't tell her what to do. But I can talk to her and hope that God softens her heart to listen to me. I love my mom too much to ever let her think that her sin is okay. Fortunately, she realizes that her sin is not okay. But sometimes, she needs reminders. It's just that she often closes her ears to me when she's in certain frames of mind.
But I suppose when it comes other people in the world who I don't know as well, or have the luxury of talking to outside of certain contexts, it is somewhat comforting to know that it's not my fault if I've tried to do my duties as a Christian and be a good witness. But I do think that I should be sad for that person and not take it lightly.
3) It might make worldly sense that my mom worries about money, but Jesus preaches that there are no legitimate worries when we place our trust in Him. So... despite what the situation may look like, I can't compromise Jesus' teachings and settle on a worldly way of looking at things.
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ThesmilingchocoboofGOD Crew
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:27 pm
I know this is alittle late but DB is right, you are fighting along side a powerful ally and if you think it's a two one two battle as far as that goes you are wrong, I know I have been praying(and reading) since this thread started and I am about 150% sure DB is too. See that just doubled your side and who knows how many more are praying for your mom. also if I might ask. Alchahol is a crutch, an excape from the pain as it were. what is she excaping,do you know?
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:35 pm
ThesmilingchocoboofGOD I know this is alittle late but DB is right, you are fighting along side a powerful ally and if you think it's a two one two battle as far as that goes you are wrong, I know I have been praying(and reading) since this thread started and I am about 150% sure DB is too. See that just doubled your side and who knows how many more are praying for your mom. also if I might ask. Alchahol is a crutch, an excape from the pain as it were. what is she excaping,do you know? First of all, alcoholism reaches far back and has affected my mom's side of the family for many generations past. Many of her siblings struggle with alcoholism, her father struggled with it, her grandfather died from it.. and it just goes on and on from there. Also, it's habit she developed in her youth during her pre-saved days. Nobody ever talked to her about the dangers of alcoholism and she suffered a lot from low self-esteem and peer pressure. She did a lot of dumb things because of other people without really thinking about the consequences or God's opinion. But to answer your question, she's escaping from: 1) Her awful marriage 2) My brothers who greatly disrespect her 3) The fact that she lives in her mother's home 4) Her and my father's joblessness and bad finances 5) Debt and bad credit 6) Past failures and regret
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Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:16 pm
Takahashi_Natsumi I struggle a lot with talking to my mom about certain biblical truths, and I'm afraid that I'm just not spiritually equipped enough to make my point clear. For instance, the bible clearly talks about the dangers of money. But when I bring that up, she gets really defensive and argues things like "God can use a person's money" or "Oh! So Christians just aren't ever supposed to have any fun? We're supposed to be poor and dress in rags?". She's so adamant that only 10% belongs to God. Even though Deuteronomy 8:18 and 10:14 indicates that everything belongs to God. Every penny we make is Gods money. And it's only because of God that we were able to earn that money to begin with. She takes things to such an extreme and won't listen to a word I try to say, no matter how soft or kind my voice is. And honestly, I just don't know how to talk to her. It's very frustrating. I pray to God for the right words, but that never brings about a different result. What should I do? How should I word things? I know EXACTLY how you feel it's like your words are useless even though in the bible it says words/ speech is the most powerful weapon You know, I try to be a good Christian. I try to stand up for God and His truths. But when I do, nobody listens to me. It's like I'm just wasting my breath on them. It's so frustrating! It's not like I'm trying to preach or that I'm judging them. I'm simply repeating what the bible says! Nobody listens!
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:23 pm
I wish I could say something that would be awesome and the total best way to solve your problem, but...there are no such words in my vocabulary. I believe that prayer will take you a long way, and sometimes if you just show your mother how much you love her, that can take it even farther.
My mother and my friend's father were both alcoholics. together, we got together and prayed for several hours a week. The change wasn't instantaneous by any means, but slowly, she reduced her usage, and my family is much better because of it. It takes time, faith, and dedication. I send you my prayers with this advice. I hope things turn out better.
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Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:58 am
You are right that if we trust in God, we shouldn't have any worries. But no one trusts in God as much as they should, and it doesn't help a person to stop worrying or stop stressing by telling them that they shouldn't or don't need to be. In the vast majority of cases, it actually increases their level of stress. Also, I understand your concern for your mother and your need to help her, but you can't make her change, and now that you've told her what you have to say, continuing to reprimand her will not be helpful. She isn't going to forget that you disapprove.
Also, God gave us more than just feelings and the Bible. The Bible guides our lives and is the Word of God, but He also gave us things like reasoning and medicine. What SARLO said about alcoholism is true. It is the most dangerous addiction for adults - the only one that detoxing from can directly kill you. (As oposed to drugs, like meth - detoxing from meth won't kill you - what you do while detoxing from meth kills you.) There are also stages to change that people go through, and trying to force a person into the next stage, or behaving toward them as though they are in a stage they aren't can be very detrimental to them successfully making that change.
Your mother sounds like she is in the first stage (precontemplation, which is flat out denial- does not acknowledge that she has a problem) - in which case you need to find a way to raise her awareness of her problems. This is not the same thing as telling her what she’s doing wrong, which will only cause her to become defensive. You need to educate her. Find some materials, pamphlets, first person accounts, whatever, of what alcoholism does to people, the risks, and implications, and what it does to their families. But you have to be patient and give her these things slowly – one thing at a time, so she has time to process them.
She might also be in the second stage (contemplation – meaning she knows she has a problem, but isn’t sure if or what to do about it). If this is the case, it’s important to provide her with information, like before, but also very important to just let her talk, and one of the very best ways to help someone talk through things is by just sitting with them. Silence is one of the best things you can do for someone who needs to talk but is scared or doesn’t know what to say. People in our society don’t like silence, so it takes practice, but it’s one of the best thing you can do for someone.
Resources can include information on AA meetings, or a doctor’s information (encouraging making an appointment to do something), hospital or clinic information, any kind of support group. And then let her talk to you about it when she’s ready, don’t ask her if she’s read the materials or looked into something every time you talk to her… maybe just ask once or twice a week.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:19 am
Instead of going from a scriptural approach which people can try to dismiss try using a historical one. A person can not dismiss historical fact that have been proven over and over again. Also a good book for you to read about apologetics, defending the faith, is the Case For Christ. It should help you out a lot.
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Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:56 am
Hah. People can dismiss facts. Humans do it all the time. It's called "cognitive dissonance".
And ... I'm not trying to say anything about Takahashi's mom, but ... usually the "historic facts" are of more interest to amateur scholars than to anybody else. Oh, I'm not totally discounting them, please understand; I mean, I'm one of those "amateur scholars". I'm just saying, I'm weird; most people won't care about 'em.
On the other hand, who's the author of that book? It sounds like it might make for an interesting read.
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