I'm going to be crazy...

[Captain_Shinzo]

chaosthingy

Besides, may I ask you a question? If two guys are fighting, you only know one of them is a bad guy, will you judge another one a good guy?

Your kind of using the Process of Elimination technique.
The problem with this is it is flawed when so simplified.

You say you see two guys fighting and one of them is bad and you ask who it could be.
Problem is, is that always the case?
Could it be possible that both are Good, Both are bad, or just something in random?
My point is, just saying one of the two guys are bad is just leading to an assumption which CAN be wrong.  

[Captain_Shinzo]

chaosthingy

Ice_Veins

Hmmm, well, most religions, or those we now "accept" as religions started out as a cult.
As far as saving this woman:
1) She jumped off a building. Is she even alive?
2) Her decisions, whether good for her or not, are her decisions. You just have to accept that.

She jumped off the 4th floor of the building and fell on the roof of the 2nd floor and got her one leg broken. Is it clear?
She's not the only one who suffered from it. All of her family are living in agony. they blame each other and her 1st daughter, 50-year-old, has the early symptom of melancholia.
I'm trying to find the way --not only to save but also save other followers and their families.
So firstly, I need to prove it is definately a satanic sect.
Secondly, I need UN and the most countries' psychologists to diagnose it.
Finally, I hope people don't judge anything for political reasons or their own benefits.

1:It's not a satanic sect, though. XD
That was random of you to say.
2: By "diagnose" you mean ban? Because last time I checked, the illegalization of almost anything is wrong.
3: Well, we wont judge politically or by own benefits.
* Even though I can't understand own benefits. *
But you will be judged on judging the belief to not only be a satanic sect, which it isn't, to all kinds of other moral opposing views.  

[zabazor]

religious cults are often the birth places of real religions. The cult is a group of people with similar beliefs. Christianity even started off as a cult, with only a few followers. The only real difference is the number of followers.

Many people often confuse cult with brainwashing/evil/mixed up, but that is because they are not the norm. Anything against the norm is often considered bad.

True some cults are unethical, and practice things you may consider immoral, but to them it is moral. Try and understand other cultures, and only intervene if someone is getting hurt, or government laws are disrupted.




 

[chaosthingy]

zabazor

religious cults are often the birth places of real religions. The cult is a group of people with similar beliefs. Christianity even started off as a cult, with only a few followers. The only real difference is the number of followers.

Many people often confuse cult with brainwashing/evil/mixed up, but that is because they are not the norm. Anything against the norm is often considered bad.

True some cults are unethical, and practice things you may consider immoral, but to them it is moral. Try and understand other cultures, and only intervene if someone is getting hurt, or government laws are disrupted.

That's why it is complicated to solve the old lady's problem.
Indeed, this case is quit thorny. like i said previouly. I hope you've read them all.
firstly, Jesus redeemed ppl when was young. If I'm not wrong, I remember it's started when he was only 12. right?
But FalunGong's founder became a the saviour in 1992 when was already 40's after he went to Thailand. He was just a qigong master before.
Secondly, Jesus was nailed on the cross to show his love to the world.
But FalunGong's founder lived in the U.S and dare not to help his followers.
He llives in a good estate and he is the only copyright beneficiary of his books and other publishings. If you ever read his book you'll know about that.
Finally, Juses has the milk of human kindness. He died for people, while Falungong's founder always says all the ppl who get suffered from disaster is khama.  

[rmcdra]

Okay all religions are cults. All cults are religions. End of that issue.

Yes FQ is a new religious movement but what seems to be the issue is if FQ is helpful to individuals or manipulative to individuals. Using the extreme as an example, the Co$ is highly manipulative in it's practices and treatment of it's practitioners. Another extreme is Family International which it's encourages practitioners to rape there children in order for them to learn agape. The Frosts is another example who encourage parents within their religion to get their children drunk and rape them as a form of introducing them into puberty.

So what we need to determine is if FQ is a compass for it's practitioners or an opiate.  

[chaosthingy]

rmcdra

Okay all religions are cults. All cults are religions. End of that issue.

Yes FQ is a new religious movement but what seems to be the issue is if FQ is helpful to individuals or manipulative to individuals. Using the extreme as an example, the Co$ is highly manipulative in it's practices and treatment of it's practitioners. Another extreme is Family International which it's encourages practitioners to rape there children in order for them to learn agape. The Frosts is another example who encourage parents within their religion to get their children drunk and rape them as a form of introducing them into puberty.

So what we need to determine is if FQ is a compass for it's practitioners or an opiate.

That's why we need to discuss here. Those extreme evil religions are killing or hurting ppl from body to mind. However, there are some things are existing in this world which are not easy to judge. Falun Gong really caused some ppl dead or other serious problems. But more ppl claim it's the greatest one in the world. Can we say, we don't need to care about those ppl or families who get suffered by Falun Gong?  

[chaosthingy]

Is this a hard case?
I really hope you to spend a bit time to analyse and discuss with me.  

[caeruleus5765]

Wow... that sounds difficult. The mark of the evil cult is when they make you cut ties with your family and friends. They do this to isolate the person from anyone who'd oppose the cult. Also, your family and friends are the people who can deprogram you the easiest. Anyways, I'm not familiar with this religion so I'm in no position to judge it.

I'm not sure how to help you out. If she returned she'd be forced to live in religious persecution. No one wants to live their life in hiding. My best guess at how to help her is to ""accidentally"" make her run into her family. Family is weird, it's like an inseparable bond. She won't come back for her health maybe she'll come back for the love of her family?  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

caeruleus5765

Wow... that sounds difficult. The mark of the evil cult is when they make you cut ties with your family and friends. They do this to isolate the person from anyone who'd oppose the cult. Also, your family and friends are the people who can deprogram you the easiest.

I agree...

From what I gather from Falun Gong is that the guy who introduced it in the 90's, meshed his beliefs of certain systems together. The worse that I see of the system itself is what the founder, Li Hongzhi, tries to enforce on his students as moral. He is homophobic, and racist for certain. He also considers familial ties a hindrance to spiritual development.

There are several practitioners who do not enforce Li Hongzhi's morals, and it seems to me the less fanatical versions could be beneficial to those who wish to practice it.

I suppose your friend is of the more fanatical practice, and I also agree with caeruleus that family would probably be the best remedy, if there is a remedy. If her family and she are in different countries, that could be difficult though.  

[chaosthingy]

Eltanin Sadachbia

caeruleus5765

Wow... that sounds difficult. The mark of the evil cult is when they make you cut ties with your family and friends. They do this to isolate the person from anyone who'd oppose the cult. Also, your family and friends are the people who can deprogram you the easiest.

I agree...

From what I gather from Falun Gong is that the guy who introduced it in the 90's, meshed his beliefs of certain systems together. The worse that I see of the system itself is what the founder, Li Hongzhi, tries to enforce on his students as moral. He is homophobic, and racist for certain. He also considers familial ties a hindrance to spiritual development.

There are several practitioners who do not enforce Li Hongzhi's morals, and it seems to me the less fanatical versions could be beneficial to those who wish to practice it.

I suppose your friend is of the more fanatical practice, and I also agree with caeruleus that family would probably be the best remedy, if there is a remedy. If her family and she are in different countries, that could be difficult though.

Thank you so much. I've been waiting for your comments for days.
I know her family has been trying all the remedies but all didn't work.
Eltanin Sadachbia guessed correct, they're living in different countries. Her family is in china while she lives in Malaysia.  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

Her family may have to find a way to her then, and I know how difficult THAT can be.

Maybe what this woman REALLY needs is for someone to fully understand her position in why she believes what she believes.

She probably has had many people tell her what she is doing wrong, and more than likely that validates what she was told would happen by her initiators.

Having someone who does not point out what is wrong with her belief, but to help her what is good about it may be what she needs to get her to drop the fanaticism, and take from her religion only what she needs.  

[chaosthingy]

Eltanin Sadachbia

Her family may have to find a way to her then, and I know how difficult THAT can be.

Maybe what this woman REALLY needs is for someone to fully understand her position in why she believes what she believes.

She probably has had many people tell her what she is doing wrong, and more than likely that validates what she was told would happen by her initiators.

Having someone who does not point out what is wrong with her belief, but to help her what is good about it may be what she needs to get her to drop the fanaticism, and take from her religion only what she needs.

The only way to let her listen to you is you agree falungong is the greatest one in this world and you must convert to it. And I just can say it still is possible.
Her family has tried many ways to comunacate with her. She couldn't accept any because every body thinks she gets suffered by Fa Lungong.
The fact is, even if other followers are also dislike to talk to her. Because she thinks she is the best one in her organization except Li Hongzi himself.
I agree that she has serious problem and this is a hard case. But can we just give up her and keep quiet about Falungong?  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

Fanaticism can make even the most simplest, most passive beliefs into something frightening.

Some people's greatest fear is of being wrong. When that fear translates itself into religious belief, and joins some people's natural fear of the afterlife and of God, then it becomes a very frightening thing indeed.

This woman sounds as though she has lived so long in her belief, and has given up so much in its name, that to turn around and say it was never necessary would the most frightening thing of all. In her eyes she would be more devoted and worthy because she would see all the trials she went through in the name of her beliefs; things others would never be able to survive.

If you have a basic understanding of the main tenants of Falun Gong, then maybe you can turn those back into points that make her question where she is coming from. If she is trying to convert you, then it would be simple enough to work these into your conversation in an innocent way.

You may need to talk with other Falun Gong practitioners to truly know what it is really supposed to look like. Especially if she does not get along with them.

I have tried to find information about Fukun Gong (Dafa), but it is all generalized. It seems to be a frankenstiened system, with a Conservative overtone, with religious practices of Taoism, and Budhism. The only tenant that I have found is detachment from worldly things, but almost all religions teach that to some degree.  

[chaosthingy]

Eltanin Sadachbia

Fanaticism can make even the most simplest, most passive beliefs into something frightening.

Some people's greatest fear is of being wrong. When that fear translates itself into religious belief, and joins some people's natural fear of the afterlife and of God, then it becomes a very frightening thing indeed.

This woman sounds as though she has lived so long in her belief, and has given up so much in its name, that to turn around and say it was never necessary would the most frightening thing of all. In her eyes she would be more devoted and worthy because she would see all the trials she went through in the name of her beliefs; things others would never be able to survive.

If you have a basic understanding of the main tenants of Falun Gong, then maybe you can turn those back into points that make her question where she is coming from. If she is trying to convert you, then it would be simple enough to work these into your conversation in an innocent way.

You may need to talk with other Falun Gong practitioners to truly know what it is really supposed to look like. Especially if she does not get along with them.

I have tried to find information about Fukun Gong (Dafa), but it is all generalized. It seems to be a frankenstiened system, with a Conservative overtone, with religious practices of Taoism, and Budhism. The only tenant that I have found is detachment from worldly things, but almost all religions teach that to some degree.

I talked to them but didn't work. I don't belong to them and this old lady can't accept and advices from anybody so far, even if it is frome other FG followers.  

[Tiina Brown]

Give her time, and do not try to convince her in any way at all.
She may not have that time, but then she might at least get her last time in peace.
However, if she do have the time, then after some time in peace, she might start asking, and then, you answer her.

About the cult itself:
Do not ignore the problems with it, no matter what happens to the old lady.