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 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:26 pm
Okay, so if Mini-14s go for about the same as an economy AR, then why not add one to my list? I'll admit that I don't know much about AR rifles. Honestly they don't really appeal to me that much. Maybe it's just because everyone loves them so I see them everywhere and I just get sick of all the talk of lowers and uppers and whatever. But as an accurate target rifle and capable combat arm (debatable?) they're viewed pretty highly. That plus cheap ammo and widely (widely widely) available magazines means I don't dislike them. So do any of you know of a fairly basic starting AR platform? I figure I can buy all the crap to duck-tape onto it later. Maybe a flat-top? Honestly a full-length M-16 style I prefer since I could suit it more as a long-range rifle than an M4gery. But all suggestions are welcome. Cheaper is better, but super-cheap and crap doesn't do me any good.  Oh yeah, and it doesn't have to be an M4/M16 style, it can be any good .223 carbine.
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Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:35 pm
Rock River Arms, (an outstanding AR manufacturer- Fresnel vouches for them and I've seen them make great groups with no malfunctions down at the range) is having a sale on their new operator series. The Elite Operator has a half quad-rail, so it's ergonomic and still customizable within reason. (If you need the whole quad rail, your AR probably weighs 15 pounds.) They're very reliable, and plenty accurate- 1MOA at 100 yards. Not only that, but they also come with a rear sight assembly of your choice, and a scope mount. (Either 30mm or 1in, you choose.)
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:30 am
Good find, Shrantic. Though I'm completely positive that sale will be over by the time I'm able to buy this thing. sweatdrop
Looks like it could be exactly what I'm looking for. Though I shall continue research of course.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:58 am
Dpms. Nothing magical, but nothing bad at all. Definitely go with flattop. You can mount a carry handle to that if you ever feel the need, but you can't take a fixed one off.
Cheaper, too. Rock river is incredible, no bullshit, and priced well, but those cocksuckers are hard to find when you want one, in my experience.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:57 am
Horrified Survivor Dpms. Nothing magical, but nothing bad at all. Definitely go with flattop. You can mount a carry handle to that if you ever feel the need, but you can't take a fixed one off. Cheaper, too. Rock river is incredible, no bullshit, and priced well, but those cocksuckers are hard to find when you want one, in my experience. Thing is, though, if he wants a quad rail, it's going to be significantly more expensive to choose DPMS. Also, good iron sights cost 50-300 dollars, and their flattop models don't come with iron sights. (For the most part. Some of their really expensive models come with BUIS.) RRA also sells some pretty cheap stuff. Like their complete rifle kits- a civilian can order one for $675, and then buy a stripped lower receiver from a dealer for maybe $125-250.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:53 am
I don't really need a quad-rail. The most I can see hanging off it besides along the top rail at the rear is maybe a vertical foregrip.
Still, I'll look at DPMS' offerings.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:31 pm
Shrantic Horrified Survivor Dpms. Nothing magical, but nothing bad at all. Definitely go with flattop. You can mount a carry handle to that if you ever feel the need, but you can't take a fixed one off. Cheaper, too. Rock river is incredible, no bullshit, and priced well, but those cocksuckers are hard to find when you want one, in my experience. Thing is, though, if he wants a quad rail, it's going to be significantly more expensive to choose DPMS. Also, good iron sights cost 50-300 dollars, and their flattop models don't come with iron sights. (For the most part. Some of their really expensive models come with BUIS.) RRA also sells some pretty cheap stuff. Like their complete rifle kits- a civilian can order one for $675, and then buy a stripped lower receiver from a dealer for maybe $125-250. I didn't like any of the stock rock river rails, so... I was going to replace It anyway... Anyway. Carry handle and fixed front makes a decent iron setup. And you can slap an aimpoint/whatever on the rear with the Front sight there just fine. Complete kits only really work if you're as insane as a black rifle guy as I am. They are cheaper, but you're forgetting the initial outlay for tools and all that. So unless you're going to get several ARs and put a good bit of work into each, not as valuable or as good an idea. Also consider buying used. Like cars, 30% value drop as soon as they're off the "lot". Great Sputhern Knife and Gun Show is great for that.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:37 pm
Horrified Survivor Shrantic Horrified Survivor Dpms. Nothing magical, but nothing bad at all. Definitely go with flattop. You can mount a carry handle to that if you ever feel the need, but you can't take a fixed one off. Cheaper, too. Rock river is incredible, no bullshit, and priced well, but those cocksuckers are hard to find when you want one, in my experience. Thing is, though, if he wants a quad rail, it's going to be significantly more expensive to choose DPMS. Also, good iron sights cost 50-300 dollars, and their flattop models don't come with iron sights. (For the most part. Some of their really expensive models come with BUIS.) RRA also sells some pretty cheap stuff. Like their complete rifle kits- a civilian can order one for $675, and then buy a stripped lower receiver from a dealer for maybe $125-250. I didn't like any of the stock rock river rails, so... I was going to replace It anyway... Anyway. Carry handle and fixed front makes a decent iron setup. And you can slap an aimpoint/whatever on the rear with the Front sight there just fine. Complete kits only really work if you're as insane as a black rifle guy as I am. They are cheaper, but you're forgetting the initial outlay for tools and all that. So unless you're going to get several ARs and put a good bit of work into each, not as valuable or as good an idea. Also consider buying used. Like cars, 30% value drop as soon as they're off the "lot". Great Sputhern Knife and Gun Show is great for that. Don't forget the hours/days of extra work to put together even just the lower, as well as the frustration. I would pay a premium to get a complete lower and put an upper on it, though maybe not a premium over the total cost of that for a whole rifle (since it's just two pins away from being a complete rifle, not tons of fitting and tooling)
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:33 pm
uryu ishida Horrified Survivor Shrantic Horrified Survivor Dpms. Nothing magical, but nothing bad at all. Definitely go with flattop. You can mount a carry handle to that if you ever feel the need, but you can't take a fixed one off. Cheaper, too. Rock river is incredible, no bullshit, and priced well, but those cocksuckers are hard to find when you want one, in my experience. Thing is, though, if he wants a quad rail, it's going to be significantly more expensive to choose DPMS. Also, good iron sights cost 50-300 dollars, and their flattop models don't come with iron sights. (For the most part. Some of their really expensive models come with BUIS.) RRA also sells some pretty cheap stuff. Like their complete rifle kits- a civilian can order one for $675, and then buy a stripped lower receiver from a dealer for maybe $125-250. I didn't like any of the stock rock river rails, so... I was going to replace It anyway... Anyway. Carry handle and fixed front makes a decent iron setup. And you can slap an aimpoint/whatever on the rear with the Front sight there just fine. Complete kits only really work if you're as insane as a black rifle guy as I am. They are cheaper, but you're forgetting the initial outlay for tools and all that. So unless you're going to get several ARs and put a good bit of work into each, not as valuable or as good an idea. Also consider buying used. Like cars, 30% value drop as soon as they're off the "lot". Great Sputhern Knife and Gun Show is great for that. Don't forget the hours/days of extra work to put together even just the lower, as well as the frustration. I would pay a premium to get a complete lower and put an upper on it, though maybe not a premium over the total cost of that for a whole rifle (since it's just two pins away from being a complete rifle, not tons of fitting and tooling) I put together my own lower. Took about an hour, and the only reason it took that long was because the trigger didn't fit through the hole in the receiver and I was being taught how to do it step-by-step... the only part I don't feel I could easily re-do if I had to is the trigger group. I don't remember how to do that bit. What about a Saiga? The first hit I saw on Gunbroker was about $400.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:43 pm
Personally, I'd stay away from a .223 Saiga. Magazines are considerably more expensive than an ARs.
Also: most firearms manufacturers are pretty decent, as far as I've read (sifting through brand snobbery). All you need to know is to stay away from Olympic Arms.
Anyways, if it were me, I'd buy from the bargain bin at CMMG. $600 for a complete rifle sounds pretty good to me.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:18 pm
Stoic Socialist Personally, I'd stay away from a .223 Saiga. Magazines are considerably more expensive than an ARs.
Also: most firearms manufacturers are pretty decent, as far as I've read (sifting through brand snobbery). All you need to know is to stay away from Olympic Arms.
Anyways, if it were me, I'd buy from the bargain bin at CMMG. $600 for a complete rifle sounds pretty good to me. Probably the best idea yet. 3nodding
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:21 pm
Saigas are cool enough. They're nothing spectacular at all. My dad has a 39mm one, likes it as does my brother. If, like stoic said, you don't mind shelling out to get some mags and using shitty soviet irons, they're good. They're economy, definitely. Like a mini-14 should be.
Armas, the upper can be a huge pain. Need a quality reciever block and bench vise, strap wrench, barrel nut wrench, and some perishable materials like moly grease, which is sold under a different name but I don't recall it now. And it's a hell of a lot easier to ******** up. I'm sure you heard how I installed my gas block out of index...
Now, I still enjoyed it. You may. Or you may kill it.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:09 pm
Horrified Survivor Saigas are cool enough. They're nothing spectacular at all. My dad has a 39mm one, likes it as does my brother. If, like stoic said, you don't mind shelling out to get some mags and using shitty soviet irons, they're good. They're economy, definitely. Like a mini-14 should be. Armas, the upper can be a huge pain. Need a quality reciever block and bench vise, strap wrench, barrel nut wrench, and some perishable materials like moly grease, which is sold under a different name but I don't recall it now. And it's a hell of a lot easier to ******** up. I'm sure you heard how I installed my gas block out of index... Now, I still enjoyed it. You may. Or you may kill it. This is why I bought a complete upper. But if you know what you're doing and nothing goes wrong, you can have the lower done in what, fifteen minutes? That part that takes the longest is packing the buffer spring with grease, and that's just because you actually have to take more than thirty seconds to get the grease in there and spread around.
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Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:14 pm
Stoic Socialist Anyways, if it were me, I'd buy from the bargain bin at CMMG. $600 for a complete rifle sounds pretty good to me.  @Survivor: 39mm? WTF is that?
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Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:10 am
Fresnel @Survivor: 39mm? WTF is that?
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