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This particular thread is about Malik Ishtar/Marik Ishtar, the original personality, not the insane split personality. Yami no Malik is discussed in another thread.

Basic Opinion/What You Answered in the Poll: Like, I'm like (har har har) 87% sure that is how I feel...^_^

Rating of Favoriteness: I also would probably need to make a list, but he's nowhere near my top 10 (Kaiba Seto, Yami no Bakura, Ryou, Yami no Yuugi, Jounouchi, Mai, Otogi, Pegasus, Rex, Mana, Mahado all definitely beat him, probably others...but that at least puts him out of the top 10. And no, that list is so not in order, hahaha)

Why You Hold That Opinion: Agreeing with Kits, I at first really found nothing more to him than a pretty face. I also agree most of what I do like is out of Yami no Malik, and if we are going to evaluate them as separate characters (with the logistics of them technically being the same character aside), I still don't find much more to like about Malik then his pretty face. However that face is pretty darn pretty, and I don't usually take Malik separately from his counterpart. So I'm still going to stand by my rating of like, as I now continue to probably bash the heck out of him (sorry guys!).

He's insecure, and sometimes I really like insecurity - depending on why they are insecure, and how they reflect these feelings. Malik would not be an example of this. I don't think his circumstances merit the expression of insecurity. Sure his childhood was cumbersome. However, considering all the pride he seems to tout on the basis of his heritage, insecurity is not a viable expression for me. Anger at the lack of control in his life holds merit for me, but again, that's expressed mainly via his counterpart (not the subject of this thread - it's really hard for me to discuss them as separate characters BTW!!! stressed ).

Also, his claim that he should be pharaoh. Why? He has no solid argument for the why here (also, how exactly was he going to carry this out, become pharaoh of Japan? I mean seriously?! What's the endgame blondie?!?). Exactly what has he done to deserve this? Other than b***h about the responsibility of his family - I mean it's not like he was the first to receive the tomb keepers rite. Why doesn't his father, or grandfather, or however far back in the line "deserve" to be pharaoh based on this argument? I mean they at least were more devout to the cause.

Furthermore, he, like many sub par villains, builds his entire vendetta with a clueless, virtually nameless enemy. Does Yami no Yuugi/Atemu know what the heck Malik is on about? Has he consciously done anything to Malik (in either the present OR past)?? Will his defeat ACTUALLY give Malik anything, turn Japan/Egypt/Wherever into some ancient Egyptian monarchy in which Malik rules supreme? Umm....I'm thinking no.

As I feel he's acted like a childish asshat, I'm also a bit infuriated by how he treats his family. Now Isis gets on my nerves, so I can't blame him there. But the way he treats Rishid? After EVERYTHING he's done for him. And yes, a lot of that "abuse" is via his counterpart, but Malik gets so caught up in his own drama that even he forgets the only person whose been there for him - for no reason really. Malik certainly does nothing to deserve Rishid's love and devotion, yet he has it regardless. His lack of appreciation for receiving something that many will never know really irks me.

So yea, Malik is a hormone ridden teenager. However, as someone who was always firmly in control of the majority of their actions, in spite of being conflicted by feelings within the confines of youth, that's not something I can easily accept as an excuse.

To conclude, things I like? (1) He's pretty (that's important ^_~). (2) He eventually realizes he's been a bit of an asshat and attempts to atone for it. (3) He's subconsciously perverted (I say subconscious, in that it's probably intended more as fan service than anything concrete). (4) Umm, yea, did I mention he's pretty? ^_^

Favorite Characters to Pair With: I don't know, I don't think I like him enough to be all that interested in slashing him. I guess I kinda like him in trio with the other yamis though (not his own, as that's rather like slashing someone with oneself, and I've never been much of an advocate for the Narcissus band). And then with just Yami no Bakura. That's probably it. Not interested in anything but sibling relationships between him and Isis or Rishid. Not interested with him and Yami no Yuugi (alone) and/or Yuugi. He really doesn't have much of a substantial relationship with anyone else to build off of. I think he's pretty, and basically like with everyone I like, I'll take any good art for the aesthetic quality. However an actual invested interest in the coupling? YB is pretty much it.

Oh I'm not trying to make the claim that you can't split it and evaluate them separately, you definitely can, I'm just saying it's hard to do so.

Well, I'm sure he didn't "literally" want to be pharaoh, I never thought that even with the dub, because that's impossible. It's just the whole claim to deserving that title - in a literal or merely representational sense, that didn't seem a justified cause to me. And yea, again the clan suffering thing came off in the dub as well. It's just as Malik really seemed to resent them, so his trying to "defend" them seem trite and just a convenient way to vent his own problems while seeming to make it noble. I mean none of them seemed to be protesting. I understand what Malik "thought," I'm just saying I find these things rather weak (and saying this via dub references to over exaggerate the ridiculousness of it), and ridiculous, and they are things I dislike about him.

I totally don't hold him wanting out against him though. However the "normal/sane" response is to just up and leave. Not murder your family and then blame a stranger based on convoluted history. I mean sorry, but will of the pharaoh? That's just kind of a ridiculous thing to buy into. I think on some level he had to know that was ridiculous but didn't want to admit the truth. And yes like I said myself, he's an angry, easily manipulated (kind of stupid) teen. My evaluation on Malik wasn't meant to be 100% concrete literal in the facts, but in just the way he spun things/believed things that really were rather poorly supported. I am holding his weaknesses against him.

That said, yes, if it weren't for those he wouldn't be half as interesting. Like many characters I have problems with, I wouldn't change Malik. I'm just pointing out what I have issues with, and why I can't love him. Why his flaws, eccentricities, misconceptions and delusions don't work for me (when other characters' do).

I love the way you phrased that, "almost lost him the second time"...second time is totally coming off like a punchline. That is unbelievably fabulous.

And hmm...would like to go on and at least reread this and make sure it's clear, but my friend just called and he said I am coming over at 8. Not do I want to, he said that I AM! Soooooo guess I'd better go shower and get dressed now, hahaha.

Yea, what can I say, those with delusions of grandeur have never been my type...^_~.

I think it's harder to separate those out, the people and the rules. In general it's harder for people to hate an abstract, so they hate a face. Like, take the government. People can "hate" the government, but there's only so much passion that can be revved up for an abstract. So people concentrate their true focus on a person - such as the president. Even though the president has minimal control over a large portion of the government, he's still the figurehead to shoulder the blame. Take war, most wars are fighting an idea, a mode of thinking/belief/etc. However you can't blow up an idea, you blow up people associated with the idea (and inadvertently, poor souls who aren't).

So yes I think while his main gripe WAS the precepts of his society, he took it out on the people. Perhaps because he found them foolish (rather than just merely hating them for being controlling) maybe. Still, you can't hate a clan without hating it's people. Granted they were his family, so I agree that he probably didn't want to leave or hate them, that he preferred to change him. However, the hypocrisy in that, in him trying to do to them what he resented them for doing to him (that is imposing personal beliefs forcibly), is another thing that would make liking Malik problematic for me. If you resent how someone has treated you, logically, you shouldn't do the same thing to them. Of course logic be damned, that's most often WHAT we do. Which is entirely my problem, it's not only a detestable action, it's an ordinary one.

It was indeed very sweet...^_^...gotta love the unintentional too.

I did have fun, except I ended up playing Twister, for the first time since high school I think. It was really fun but I'm still totally sore two days later ~_~.

Hi Morgey!!

I like Pandora too!! Though that probably won't make my list of Malik gripes oddly enough. Probably because unlike a lot of the "Steves," Pandora made some of his own choices/mistakes. Still like him, still understand, but I don't feel he was quite as duped and abused as others.

Also, on Rishid and Isis...hmm...maybe I should wait and assume they'll get their own threads, but since it was brought up, I'm pretty sure a better excuse could have been found if they wanted to lie to him. I mean they are immersed in a world of magic for cripes sake!! And would blaming a random servant (who they then just have go "missing") be so much worse than allowing him to start a vendetta that would hurt/kill several others - and you know, endanger the fate of the world and all that?

Good luck with that essay! Hooray procrastination ^_~...hehe. You know what they say, procrastination is like masturbation, in the end, you're only screwing yourself... razz . I like that quote. It's never swayed me away from putting off the inevitable though.

@JK: Yeah, that's a good point. Haha, I love the comparison to the government. XD However, I think a good portion of Malik's face hatred wasn't only given to his clan, but even more so to the Pharaoh. My gosh it was like necessary to start and entire Yami no Yuugi pity party for all Malik needlessly put him through!
Oh, yes, and Malik's hypocrisy! =D I think I actually liked how normal that was. Even though he brain-controls people with his giant, pointy rod, I often feel that Malik is one of the most human characters in the series. His flaws themselves are pretty ordinary, but the way he uses his flaws to react to already-fantastic situations makes his life and situation completely insane! It almost feels like a, "Don't act like a dumbass and lose your temper, or you could form an evil cult and get a homicidal split personality too" warning. Then again I can't help but feel that some people would want that... *shudder*

@Morgey: Why hallo thar Miss Essay Writer, or lack there of!
Personally, I think the way it would've unfolded would be Isis and Rishid figuring, "Him thinking a magical pharaoh's will killed his father is better than him having someone, especially himself, to blame and grown hatred for, so might as well let him think that." But ohoho, little do they know the range of Malik's insane and illogical reasonings and revenge schemes! By the time they realized how much he had flipped about all of this, it was too late. Isis tried to change his mind, so Malik cut ties with her, and Rishid was too loyal to Malik to do anything but follow him and his orders. And the Ghouls are born! Personal theories are fun!
Haha, I like how you say, "But that's mean." XD It's just so simple, but it's true. Isis and Rishid seem too goody-goody to blame someone else, even if they let that servant escape. But then again... did they even have servants underground? o.o I really don't remember ever seeing any besides Rishid. I know it was a secret clan and all, so... ugh, I really don't remember!
And I totally concur that Malik should not have hid his rod behind his back like that. I think he actually stuck it down his pants in the back before walking away, then waddled off with the awkwardness that only a giant golden wedgie could give you.
Yes, I sooo agree about the Yami no Malik thing! I love the guy, but he almost just seemed too convenient, so that Takahashi Sensei wouldn't have to tie any of Malik's important plot points together. D:
But yeah, overall, I think Malik makes up for a lot of his mistakes by at least doing something about it once he realizes what a complete tool he was being. He doesn't bow and grovel and apologize, but simply does what he can to wake Rishid/stop Yami no Malik, offers to sacrifice himself so Yuugi can win the duel, shows the markings on his back, and gives Yuugi Ra and the Rod. I mean... talk about making himself useful. You gotta respect that he at least didn't go into misery about his mistakes, but just did what he could to make up for it, then let himself go on and continue his life, try fixing it. I think that is something else that's important about Malik's character, is that he was able to forgive himself, and that spared us many emo moments of self loathing.

@JK: I think Pandora was the most well-developed of the Ghouls, which made him more likable. He had a back story and everything! I was quite fond of Strings myself, him and his creepiness.
There will definitely be Isis and Rishid threads eventually, but considering how relevant they are to Malik, you don't need to watch your tongue too much in discussing them here.
OMG THAT IS AN AWESOME QUOTE.

@all - On Pandora (rather than just saying the same thing twice): I agree, he is the most developed. The rest are either fully brainwashed and you never get to know who or what they are, or they just represent the cliche henchmen (like the two from the double duel with Kaiba/Yami...Umbria and whateverdeblah). Pandora had his own mind, but he also had more to him than just his duty as an underling. Granted, he came off as more of a outside hired contract. I guess the reason I don't hate Malik so much for how he treated him, is that Pandora was insane and miserable regardless. I'm sure THAT is not quite the definition of putting someone out of their misery, but was it really any worse than what Pandora was mentally doing to himself?

@Morgey - I was the same in school, generally the stuff I did promptly (or even early) just never came off as well. I need the adrenaline pump that only pressure can give to find that necessary stroke of genius. Which kind of blows, I mean it's nifty but the stress is kind irritating. Especially when you have to miss out on things, like pub trips!

As for foresight, I don't really remember, when exactly does Isis get and start using that necklace thing? I mean what's the point of having an artifact that lets you see the future if you just standby and watch and do nothing? Now in truth, that's really what someone SHOULD do, who had the power to see the future. But that's what makes it so frustrating, since when are fictional characters suppose to behave within the confines of ideal conventions?! I mean even if the conclusion always ends up in things unfolding as foreseen anyhow, people are supposed to try and change them. That's what normal people do!

@Kits - I love government because it's always a wonderful example for everything...^_^. You can hate it, love it and use it all at the same time. And yes, poor Yami no Yuugi, hahaha. I think in some ways you are right he is the most human, I mean most of the characters are crazy, rigid, and do not act with even a semblance of logical rationality. I guess that's also why I only "like" him. He's too normal. I mean even the insane double personality is normal. People really do that, and they use that to justify things. I mean my mom is a nurse and my dad a doctor in mental health, these are the stories I'm hearing all the time! Heh ~_~

It might just be my memory doing what it wants, but I'm pretty sure I remember shadowy robe figures hanging around down there. Also wasn't Malik hauled off to be carved up by shadowy robe figures? Again, that might just be my imagination having fun here.

Glad you like the quote...I can't claim originality, but after FINALS (that one being, FINALS, standing for ******** I Never Actually Learned s**t) that's my favorite school quote.

@Morgey - An essay on graves? That's awesome! What is this for?

I guess talking about Isis and the necklace earlier, I'm still going to be on the bandwagon of how could she just accept that destiny can't be changed? I mean did she ever try before? She has a nice cheat, why wouldn't she try? I dunno, I'm just a little obsessed with that, if she's just going to watch and do nothing...why bother watching?

YES! So it's not just me remembering shadowy robe people dragging Malik to initiation!!! Yea, see, shadowy robe people... razz

@All - Ok, on the blood clan, I've never wanted to go there, but is it supposed to be implied that you know, one day Malik and Isis were suppose to go continue the clan? Are there other options within, cousins maybe (what with the unlikelihood of the perfect number of offspring thing Morgey mentioned)...still all one bloodline right? I think that is the one thing I could totally support Malik objecting too, hahaha. I certainly wouldn't want to have to forcibly get it on with my brother one day. Especially considering Malik's option is Isis, I mean I suppose she's ok looking, but man what a buzz kill razz .

Evil personality that allows me to not screw my sister and get a wicked sweet motorbike - away!!

Also, I dunno why, I feel like a failure, but I just can't jump on this rod/pants deal. So sorry.

@Morgey - alright get to that paper already! Hopefully the next time you pop in here it'll be to announce a completed paper. Or at least at outline ^_~.

@Morgey - Aww, sorry. Although as you were the 11th post, chances of you getting 12th were kind of slim... razz

Mmm...that sounds kind of interesting, glad to hear that progress has been made.

Hahaha...I know, VERY terrible consequences, and loving the woooo. And yes, I completely agree, but that still doesn't ever stop every other character in every other series who manages to glimpse the future from meddling. So Isis just sitting back and accepting things as they are just seems so bizarrely wrong to me. I'm now operating under the theory that she's probably a robot.

Well...as storks are birds and animals are rather inbred I imagined he'd have been rather nonchalant... razz

nu-uh I saw that!! Hahaha...but ok I'll pretend I didn't.

Oh it's a total win...I just had nothing more to say...and for that I feel ashamed.