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 Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:49 pm
Hello all!
Well, as you can see, I'm still alive and kicking. And just in time to see the new Teaser trailer Bungie released at the VGA awards last weekend. I must say it is to be a promising game. Word in the forums states that there will be a brand spankin new game engine that will revolutionize the Halo Franchise. (hey that rymed!) Plus, new charecters, new weapons, and possibly a new chapter in the Halo-Verse.
BUT! (No, I'm not done yet, sit your a** back down) for those respected few who have the title of "Halologist" or "Halo Historian", can see a few flaws in the plot line of the story. And infact notice how the time line is NOT adding up at all! D:
"Hey Nori... WHAT THE ******** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!"
Well, its simple... I was having a conversation with a past Halo coleague of mine (Jiboo as he is known in the Guild), we discussed Halo, and how its all just not adding up!
For example... Harvest took place, and there were NO recorded event of ANY SPARTAN being even inlisted yet, untill 15 years after the fall of the first planet! But yet in the game (Which was a dissapointment in someways...) HALO WARS, you see SPARTAN's all over the damned place! And to add to the confusion, they are wearing what looks to be the MJOLNIR Mark 4 (Dont know numerals) armor which was not developed untill the Fall of Reach! And Halo Wars only took place 5 years after First contact!
Next, the trailer:
In the new HALO : REACH trailer, we see new (older) vehicals, that are not suspended by the Anti Grav technology the Pelican's use, but crude propeller systems, simaler to the Hornet. And if we look carefully, the SPARTAN who walks by, is wearing... Well, I dont even know what the ******** it is... But that is DEFINATLY NOT MJOLNIR MARK 4 ARMOR, which in the first book, "Halo : Fall of Reach" On the goddamned cover THEY ARE ALL IN THE SAME ARMOR...
As the new comer enters a combat bunker, he is met face to face with a SPARTAN that looks like a scrap yard. The armor style is diffrent, and bits and peices of him are replaced with diffrent armor plates...
Jiboo and I both said WTF?! MJOLNIR Armor is specifically designed for its OWN ARMOR, not other pieces which cannot be picked up by the sensor's in the Armor pieces that have been stripped off... Plus, EVERY SPARTAN KNOWS OTHER ARMOR PLATING IS LIKE PAPER TO PLASMA! So why would he do that? THERE IS NO POINT! Useless!
So this Mo-fo is scrapin his knife on his armor (LIKE A BOSS!), and the new comer tries to walk forward, but is stopped short by SOME RANDOM PROSTETIC ARM!
PAUSE! RIGHT THERE!
If another person is stopping this new comer... WTF... why did that even happen? This showed rivalry was apparent in this game between the other SPARTAN's. Which was INACCURATE! All SPARTAN's worked as a team. All SPARTAN's had no beef against eachother (Cause they were vegetarians, and they weren't ******** scared of them...). They were brothers, they acted as such. So WRONG BUNGIE WRONG!
Continuing scene...
So the arm's owner, is this russian chick. Awesome...? So now cripples are SPARTAN's. Thaaaat does NOT seem accurate. So then, she says some s**t to their team leader A LIEUTENANT. WRONG RANKING IDIOTS! Then this MASSIVE SPARTAN comes outta nowhere and says his one liner:
"Never expected anyone to survive Pegasi sir..."
And apparently the ******** is british too... so great a MASSIVE BRITISH SPARTAN! WHATS NOT TO LOVE?! (I bet he has bad teeth too)
WTF SPARTAN'S ARE NOT THAT ******** BIG! There is no god damn Brick in this game! THIS IS NOT BORDERLANDS!
So, then the "lieutenant" leader of the squad "Noble One" (WHICH BTW DOES NOT EXIST. Reson coming in a sec...) says some s**t... and they gear up and fly off to battle... AWESOME!
It was recorded, that MOST SPARTAN's WERE ASSIGNED TO THE TEAMS SPECIFIED IN THE FIRST HALO NOVEL. The only exceptions were those in the Renegade squad dubbed "Grey Team". Also, the naming of "Noble One." WRONG. SPARTAN squad system is usually based off of Colors.
So, after reserching and watching the video a bit more, I travel to the Halo Wikia site... Oh god... did I flip a s**t.
I looked into it... The names are as followed...
Kat-320 (Bionic Russian b***h)
Jorge-052 (The british Giant Abomination)
Carter-259 (The "Lieutenant")
... LOOK AT THOSE NAMES. THEY ARE WRONG. THEIR SPARTAN TAGS ARE /WRONG/. The SPARTAN Program only went up to 160 Candidates! (And that was off the top of myhead. please correct that number). MOST WERE WIPED OUT! The digit system numbers 001-160. NOTHING PAST THAT. So wow Bungie... I'm obliterating your storyline. Awesome...
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo:_Reach
You're resourse is posted above.
PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS THREAD! I would actually like to have a discussion I myself am a Halologist/Weaponologist. I would actually love to discuss this with YOU. The members of HTRP in regards to upcoming storylines...
/end_rant
k.post.go.
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:16 am
Good news Ben! I agree with you! Or at least, did until I inspected things a little bit further. There are a few plot holes in the Reach trailer that I noticed as well that I cannot for the life of me figure out why Bungie would destroy their own beloved canon. But for the time being I'll try to explain a few of the major issues that you're having as best I can.
Quote: Harvest took place, and there were NO recorded event of ANY SPARTAN being even inlisted yet, untill 15 years after the fall of the first planet! But yet in the game (Which was a dissapointment in someways...) HALO WARS, you see SPARTAN's all over the damned place! And to add to the confusion, they are wearing what looks to be the MJOLNIR Mark 4 (Dont know numerals) armor which was not developed untill the Fall of Reach! And Halo Wars only took place 5 years after First contact!
While there are no RECORDED events of SPARTAN involvement it is clear that they were in fact around just after the events at Harvest. The SPARTAN IIs first mission occurred just after the events at Harvest, while this mission was not against the Covenant it was activity. The rest of the missions however might not have been covered as there was 33 SPARTANs still alive and kicking. Further Bungie has not expanded on much of the SPARTANs exploits other than John - 117 and even still there are some of his missions that have yet to be covered, so it is possible that we simply don't know of any of the missions that the SPARTANs were involved in yet because Bungie hasn't covered them yet.
Quote: ... if we look carefully, the SPARTAN who walks by, is wearing... Well, I dont even know what the ******** it is... But that is DEFINATLY NOT MJOLNIR MARK 4 ARMOR, which in the first book, "Halo : Fall of Reach" On the goddamned cover THEY ARE ALL IN THE SAME ARMOR...
The SPARTAN IIs that are shown in the trailer for HALO: Reach are in fact wearing the same armor, with slight variations. Similarly to the MARK VI MJOLNIR Combat Armor there were slight variations for different combat load outs. These were especially vital during the earlier stages of the war so naturally their would be a wider variation of styles of modifications for earlier models of armor. As time went on the necessity and capability of creating variations for MJOLNIR armor became less and less, thus we see so few variations in HALO 3 and so many in HALO: Reach.
The cover of Halo: Fall of Reach features four SPARTAN IIs all wearing MJOLNIR Mark V armor, as is evidenced by the easily distinguished black "brim" just over the visor.
Quote: MJOLNIR Armor is specifically designed for its OWN ARMOR, not other pieces which cannot be picked up by the sensor's in the Armor pieces that have been stripped off... Plus, EVERY SPARTAN KNOWS OTHER ARMOR PLATING IS LIKE PAPER TO PLASMA! So why would he do that? THERE IS NO POINT! Useless!
While MJOLNIR armor was designed specifically for each model it could be possible for, similar to cars, parts to be interchangeable. Say one SPARTAN has a tendency to have a pull to their left, leaving their right a little more exposed in certain situations. Naturally they would take some sort of armor reinforcing to compensate. The armor is all still Mark IV, albeit different models, so the system would still be able to give out readings and compensate for reaction times without any errors.
Quote: So this Mo-fo is scrapin his knife on his armor (LIKE A BOSS!), and the new comer tries to walk forward, but is stopped short by SOME RANDOM PROSTETIC ARM!
PAUSE! RIGHT THERE!
If another person is stopping this new comer... WTF... why did that even happen? This showed rivalry was apparent in this game between the other SPARTAN's. Which was INACCURATE! All SPARTAN's worked as a team. All SPARTAN's had no beef against eachother (Cause they were vegetarians, and they weren't ******** scared of them...). They were brothers, they acted as such. So WRONG BUNGIE WRONG!
As for the shoving the newcomer off the stop could not have been as hostile as it appeared. SPARTANs aren't exactly known for being subtle so. Further it may have been a "no ******** around let's get s**t done or Reach will fall" manner. Further, according to Bungie there were in fact two classes of SPARTAN IIs, as was confirmed by the I Love Bees campaign prior to the launch of Halo 2. This hostility could come from one class to another, granted SPARTANs are all brothers and Kurt - 051 even treated the SPARTAN IIIs as though they had suffered alongside of him in every battle. This is one anomaly I hope will be solved in the actual game, which I am fairly certain it will.
Quote: So the arm's owner, is this russian chick. Awesome...? So now cripples are SPARTAN's. Thaaaat does NOT seem accurate.
The prosthetic arm was a little distracting at first but at times of dire need, and clearly The Great War was one of those times, even humanity will scrounge together the sloppiest of forces to defend their existence.
In this case their best forces were SPARTANs. Every SPARTAN II that survived the augmentation process was put to use by the UNSC in some way or another. I doubt they would have fielded a SPARTAN, or trained one for that matter, if they were missing an arm. Likely it was lost due to plasma fire or some effect of that sort and rather than take the SPARTAN out of action they simply built her a new arm and threw her back into the fray. Why waste a valuable, and limited resource like a SPARTAN simply because they lost an arm when you could give them a new, more efficient one and send them off?
Quote: So then, she says some s**t to their team leader A LIEUTENANT. WRONG RANKING IDIOTS! Then this MASSIVE SPARTAN comes outta nowhere and says his one liner:
"Never expected anyone to survive Pegasi sir..."
And apparently the ******** is british too... so great a MASSIVE BRITISH SPARTAN! WHATS NOT TO LOVE?! (I bet he has bad teeth too)
WTF SPARTAN'S ARE NOT THAT ******** BIG! There is no god damn Brick in this game! THIS IS NOT BORDERLANDS!
She was referring to the Commander, the Lieutenant you were speaking of is you, the newcomer. Further, Lieutenant is a Navy rank, so no, it isn't a wrong ranking.
As for George's British accent, it's actually more Australian than it is British, though that is debatable. As for his massive stature, SPARTANs were known to be massive, each at least six and a half feet tall, so naturally a human that was genetically going to be a large person who is then augmented through puberty and into adulthood would be a massive hulking figure, so that would make sense as well. Imagine say if Shaq were genetically capable of being augmented, he would probably have ended up some 9 feet tall because of the enhancements that his augmentations would perform.
Quote: It was recorded, that MOST SPARTAN's WERE ASSIGNED TO THE TEAMS SPECIFIED IN THE FIRST HALO NOVEL. The only exceptions were those in the Renegade squad dubbed "Grey Team". Also, the naming of "Noble One." WRONG. SPARTAN squad system is usually based off of Colors.
Most SPARTANs WERE assigned to teams straight at the start of training, however complications due to losses or other scenarios present opportunities for rosters to change, see Kurt moving to Blue Team. Further the newcomer could also be one of the second classes and thusly reassigned to Noble Team.
As for the team naming it could simply mean they are Fireteam Noble One, a temporary designation while they are defending Reach, though either way this would not be the first time a SPARTAN II team was referred to by something other than their color. (See Team Omega)
Quote: LOOK AT THOSE NAMES. THEY ARE WRONG. THEIR SPARTAN TAGS ARE /WRONG/. The SPARTAN Program only went up to 160 Candidates! (And that was off the top of myhead. please correct that number). MOST WERE WIPED OUT! The digit system numbers 001-160. NOTHING PAST THAT.
As for their names I again fall back to the second class of SPARTAN II argument. While there WERE only 160 initial candidates, their was a second class so naturally there would be more identification tags.
Granted there are still a few minor holes in the plot maybe they are intended to be there so we question them, then when Bungie brings the hammer down during game and crushes those questions we are shocked and awed. Or maybe there were in fact a couple canonical errors, it wouldn't be the first time it occurred. (See the Pillar of Autumn's structure)
Likely it is simple errors that will be smoothed out over time, I certainly hope that's the case as well.
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:22 am
I have a couple of things to say. First and formost, calm down. No videogame is worth freaking out over like this. Even if it is Halo. Second, Bungie created the universe. THEY have the story bible (well technically, 343 Industries probably has it by now), and no, you can't know Halo canon better than the people who invented it. As for the established Canon, the only canon that we should be adhering to without question is what is presented to us in the games. That is the primary canon. YES, there are a bunch of wonderful books and some less than wonderful anime shorts out there now. But those are secondary canonical sources. Extended fiction if you will. Similar to the differences in Star Wars novels and the Star Wars movies. Both are entertaining fictions, but the established canon is what is presented in the films.
You're not better at being Bungie than Bungie. You don't know more about the Halo universe, and so you can't call foul on them. The armor they are wearing is either a heavily modified Mark V (which I find highly unlikely) or personalized Mark IV MJOLNIR (which is more likely). Before your start crying about how "all the spartans looked the same" there are already several established canonical instances in which this is not true. Spartan Gray Team, as Bill mentioned, is a separate entity utilizing gray MJOLNIR. Spartan Team Black is a special Operations unit utilizing Skunkworks MJOLNIR. You have to remember that the Spartans received their Mark IV armor in, what was it? 2525? This means that they've had their armor for Twenty Seven (27) years. Don't tell me that you wouldn't try to personalize your armor after such a long period of time. EVEN if you were one of Nylund's Spartans. Frankly, I think that these are most likely class 2 Spartans. None of the faces (with the possible exception of the Commander) seemed to be above thirty. All of the first class of Spartan-IIs were in their early 40s. Even with the relativistic effects of cryosleep and slipspace travel, they would still show this age. The Second class however would be in their mid teens. Although they would probably employ some of the same augmentations that were granted to the Spartan-IIIs, chiefly the forced puberty at an early age. This would account for their appearances.
As for Kat-320, it's likely that the bionic arm was a replacement for one she lost either during augmentation or combat. Since we're taking the books as such hard, indisputable canon, I'd like to point out James. Who lost his lower arm to a Hunter on Sigma Octanus IV. He had a new arm flash-cloned and grafted to his body. I think it's a more likely explaination that Kat-320 simply lost the right arm during her Augmentation. It's likely that the rest of her body was augmented perfectly, but her arm was deformed and unusable. It's likely that instead of simply giving up, she opted to have the arm replaced as a way to continue service.
Now based on Jorge-052's comment "I didn't think anyone survived Pegasi sir" the protagonist (the unnamed Lieutenant) is either a Spartan-III or a Spartan-II from class 2. Another alternative is that the unamed Lieutenant is, in fact, a member of the original Spartan class, coopted into working for ONI rather than working with his brothers. Seeing as how Carter-259 said that there are parts of his file that "ONI doesn't want me to [read]" and based on his comments of "I'm glad to have your skillset, but you can leave that lone wolf stuff behind." I think it's a fair assumption that the unnamed Lieutenant has been working for ONI performing high-risk missions by himself. He was either requisitioned by Carter-259 for the defense of Reach or some other purpose.
Halo Wars takes place in 2531, Harvest fell initially in 2525. Based on the Master Chief's age in the FoR, he's about six or seven when he's conscripted into the Spartan program. He was born in 2511. After seven years of training and augmentation, the remaining Spartans graduated in 2524 or 2525. They received MJOLNIR MK IV in 2525, and lost their first brother in combat against the Covenant. Sam-034. By 2531 it's safe to say that the Spartans were in action, however the program didn't go public until 2547.
And now, without further ado, I'm moving this thread to the Chatterbox where it belongs.
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Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 11:05 pm
All points I was going to cover were covered. Good job gentlemen, you make me proud.
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Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:22 am
Nori saddens me by not knowing roman numerals... Which I learned by like, 7 ._. (LOLZ)
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X
1 2_3_4_5 6__7__8_9 10
XX 20, XXX 30, L 50, C 100, D 500, M 1000
The year I was born is MCMLXXXVIII = 1988
It is quite simple >>
Cater is a Commander... they say Commander... Also, Kat stopping someone isn't rivalry, she is his superior. And you argument is invalid if you don't even know it was 150 Spartans, 75 died, then what was left was uh, 32 I think. And there is actually different waves of Spartans. Class I: Wave I, Wave II, Wave III or something.. Class II... Yasmine Zaman...
Also, Spartans are actually use Navy Enlisted or Officer ranks, not marine. THEY ARE NOT MARINES.
Also, Bungie's plot. Bungie pattered it, created it, sold it to the world. They are the creators, and they can twist it how they please.
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:45 am
As a less then knowledgeable Halo expert here... The Rotary Prop craft are not as unlikely as you would think. Remember, this is REACH. This is Mankind's PREMIER military base. Chances are, all sorts of various and previously unfielded equipment and technology, or even outdated tech, was pressed into service to help facilitate the sudden need to man positions that previously, were there for training purposes, or were undermanned active duty stations, and now under heavy enemy attack. Think about what went on in Halo 3: ODST. The ODST used whatever they could get functional, be it police Pelicans, Covenant Phantoms, Armory stores of Mongooses and Scorpions, even, if you recall towards the end of the campaign, a GARBAGE TRUCK. Humans are not above using non-standard, even outdated equipment, anything to give them an edge in combat.
Also, the differing patterns of their armor, while covered well by others here, I must point something out. Since World War II, soldiers the world over, have ceased to have absolutely identical combat wear. If you ever take a gander at US troops currently deployed, while the base uniform is the same, the exact configuration of weapons, armor and kits are not. Each has been customized and adjusted to fit the END USER. Just because there is a 'standard' issue item, does not mean, when it finally gets to the field, it will be the same item it was when it was issued.
And as the customization of armor, teh same goes for the arm. Remember, SPARTANs, from what I understand, are a right b***h to make. If you have one, and they lose an arm, what do you do? Kick them out, or give them a new one, and put them BACK in the hell they just walked away from? A smart commander, will take the latter option. Easier to replace limbs then have to wait for a whole new soldier to get meshed in, brought up to speed, trained, told the mission, and then fielded. Remember, when animals are backed into a corner, they use any mean available to them to escape and survive. Humanity is no different. Use all available means, and get out alive. Simple as that.
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