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 Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:40 am
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:33 pm
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:24 am
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Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:12 am
no neutral after the crucifixtion he was in hell for three days but then he went back to heaven..
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Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:47 am
then you must be denying that our God is Omnipresent.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:04 am
Actually, I already know the answer to this, but
I want to see other people's thoughts first, before I let out the answer,
and the same time, making the Guild a bit active
3nodding
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:11 pm
Actually, God is present in hell as well, but He is not there like you would think. He is OmniPresent, every where at once. He feels the pain of those in hell as well. God is either 100% or he is 0%, not both. So He is either everywhere, or no where. If the bible says He is OmniPresent, I will trust that.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:23 pm
When asking a question of this nature, one must realize that there are far more implications than just the whole 'is God omnipresent?'
You see, the one way the question was answered implies that God's omnipresence surpasses his omnipotence; while the other answer implies that God's omnipotence is surpassed by his omnipresence making it so that God is not truly omnipotent. So, really it is a question of whether God's omnipotence is limited by his omnipresence? And if it is the case that his omnipresence does limit his omnipotence, is God still omnipotent?
So, the answer that God must be in hell in order to be omnipresent implies that God is not omnipotent. Which could cause one to infer that God is not the most powerful being - that there might be something more powerful than God. Also, it implies that God is not perfect as it implies that God is not all powerful (omnipotent).
Lastly, if I remember correctly, omnipresence is not a requirement for God's perfection.
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:36 pm
chaoticpuppet When asking a question of this nature, one must realize that there are far more implications than just the whole 'is God omnipresent?' You see, the one way the question was answered implies that God's omnipresence surpasses his omnipotence; while the other answer implies that God's omnipotence is surpassed by his omnipresence making it so that God is not truly omnipotent. So, really it is a question of whether God's omnipotence is limited by his omnipresence? And if it is the case that his omnipresence does limit his omnipotence, is God still omnipotent? So, the answer that God must be in hell in order to be omnipresent implies that God is not omnipotent. Which could cause one to infer that God is not the most powerful being - that there might be something more powerful than God. Also, it implies that God is not perfect as it implies that God is not all powerful (omnipotent). Lastly, if I remember correctly, omnipresence is not a requirement for God's perfection. How do you figure that? God is Everywhere, including hell. He is Omnipotent, all powerful. And he is Omniceant, all knowing. He is all of these. Not for His perfection, But because nothing can hold Him away. If anything, His Omnipotentancy reconfirms that He is indeed everywhere, even Hell.
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:19 am
Rikonah He feels the pain of those in hell as well.
Its like this dawg, I paint on a canvas.
It gets damaged. Do I get damaged? No
Am I in the painting? No.
Good point, yet a few wrong statments.
3nodding
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Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:08 am
If God is in hell due to his omnipresence it could be inferred that God is there outside of his own will, thus stating that God is not omnipotent, if, on the other hand, God is in hell because he wants to be there, then it says nothing about his omnipotence. However, that decision between whether or not God wants to be there is not something that is quite possible for the likes of us to make, at least yet. Quote: God is Everywhere, including hell. Then it is a question of whether or not he wants to be there. Quote: He is Omnipotent, all powerful. And he is Omniceant, all knowing. These I know, also, it's spelled omniscient; you did forget to mention omnibenevolence though. Quote: Not for His perfection, But because nothing can hold Him away. God, being perfect, must be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. If it is the contrary, then God cannot be perfect, for these are the requirements of perfection. He is not these because nothing holds him away from them, he is these because he simply is them. Quote: If anything, His Omnipotentancy reconfirms that He is indeed everywhere, even Hell. No, his want to be everywhere coupled with his omnipotency reconfirms that he is everywhere. Without that want, his omnipresence surpasses his omnipotency, thus making it so that God is not omnipotent. So, what I am saying is that it is a question of two parts: First whether God is in hell, and secondly, whether God wants to be in hell.
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Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:03 pm
erg... im not God so i wouldnt know. grrr to you mister.. making this up and making me think.. mad
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:41 pm
littlechimp erg... im not God so i wouldnt know. grrr to you mister.. making this up and making me think.. mad
haha [=
alot of people just say "no hes not in there" with out trying to think.
But you tried to think and conclude something.
Thats good.
sorry for making you think hard sweatdrop
[/color]
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:49 am
chickenlipsRfun2eat littlechimp erg... im not God so i wouldnt know. grrr to you mister.. making this up and making me think.. mad
haha [=
alot of people just say "no hes not in there" with out trying to think.
But you tried to think and conclude something.
Thats good.
sorry for making you think hard sweatdrop
[/color]Well, here's what I've found, an exerpt by Eric Landstrom. "Thomas Oden noted in his systematic theology that the infinite is that which has no end, no limit, and no finite boundary, thus that which is infinite cannot be measured or timed by any finite standard. Infinity, rightly conceived, can belong only to God alone. By definition that which is infinite cannot be applied to any finite creature, even though the creatures themselves may participate in the infinity of God. Thus notions of infinite time and infinite space tend to be self contradictory and confusing because space and time, being finite, cannot be extended infinitely. It is only when infinity is attributed to God alone that the concept has precise, plausible, and a consistent meaning. Space and time are transcended by the infinite God, making terms like beyond and trascended inexact and usable only in a metaphorical sense. God is both infinitely near and infinitely far, yet speaking in this way we do not imply that God is finitely localized in one place, be it here on this earth, heaven, or hell (Oden, The Living God). Omnipresence is God's method of being present to all ranges of both time and space. Although God is present in all time and space, God is not locally limited to any time or space. God is everywhere and in every now. No molecule or atomic particle is so small that God is not fully present to it, and no galaxy so vast that God does not circumscribe it. But if we were to remove creation, God would still know of it, for He knows all possibilities, whether they are actual or not. But some disagree saying that God is not aware or present with those who are in hell and that he is also unaware of the transpirings within hell's boundaries. To this idea, we say no, for God is everywhere present and knows all things, even those who are removed from his blessings an dwell in the confines of hell. Thus because God is everywhere present, we argue, he is definitely aware of hell and its contents and for this very reason has broken off all fellowship with it's occupants, His blessing are departed, His wrath is ushered in. Yet, God in His infinite mercy, allows the occupants to continue to exist rather than to snuff them out because of their intrinsic value: for something is greater than nothing, having life, no matter the condition, is better than having no life. Thus God's presence in hell works both to sustain the occupants and through the anguish of personal sin, those before his holy presence are punished. Thus, we affirm that lake of fire is before God, that God is present within it and present within it's occupants. Nevertheless, we deny the idea of process theology, or that of eminence, the idea that creation emanates from the being of God because it doesn't differentiate clearly enough that the creation is not God. Hence, hell is a state that is in the presence of God, but not in a state of a blessed presence. The lexical definition of the word commonly translated presence from Rev. 14:10: enopion, in the face of (literally or figuratively):-before, in the presence (sight) of, to."
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:12 pm
windswept_fury Well, here's what I've found, an exerpt by Eric Landstrom. "Thomas Oden noted in his systematic theology that the infinite is that which has no end, no limit, and no finite boundary, thus that which is infinite cannot be measured or timed by any finite standard. Infinity, rightly conceived, can belong only to God alone. By definition that which is infinite cannot be applied to any finite creature, even though the creatures themselves may participate in the infinity of God. Thus notions of infinite time and infinite space tend to be self contradictory and confusing because space and time, being finite, cannot be extended infinitely. It is only when infinity is attributed to God alone that the concept has precise, plausible, and a consistent meaning. Space and time are transcended by the infinite God, making terms like beyond and trascended inexact and usable only in a metaphorical sense. God is both infinitely near and infinitely far, yet speaking in this way we do not imply that God is finitely localized in one place, be it here on this earth, heaven, or hell (Oden, The Living God). Omnipresence is God's method of being present to all ranges of both time and space. Although God is present in all time and space, God is not locally limited to any time or space. God is everywhere and in every now. No molecule or atomic particle is so small that God is not fully present to it, and no galaxy so vast that God does not circumscribe it. But if we were to remove creation, God would still know of it, for He knows all possibilities, whether they are actual or not. But some disagree saying that God is not aware or present with those who are in hell and that he is also unaware of the transpirings within hell's boundaries. To this idea, we say no, for God is everywhere present and knows all things, even those who are removed from his blessings an dwell in the confines of hell. Thus because God is everywhere present, we argue, he is definitely aware of hell and its contents and for this very reason has broken off all fellowship with it's occupants, His blessing are departed, His wrath is ushered in. Yet, God in His infinite mercy, allows the occupants to continue to exist rather than to snuff them out because of their intrinsic value: for something is greater than nothing, having life, no matter the condition, is better than having no life. Thus God's presence in hell works both to sustain the occupants and through the anguish of personal sin, those before his holy presence are punished. Thus, we affirm that lake of fire is before God, that God is present within it and present within it's occupants. Nevertheless, we deny the idea of process theology, or that of eminence, the idea that creation emanates from the being of God because it doesn't differentiate clearly enough that the creation is not God. Hence, hell is a state that is in the presence of God, but not in a state of a blessed presence. The lexical definition of the word commonly translated presence from Rev. 14:10: enopion, in the face of (literally or figuratively):-before, in the presence (sight) of, to."
Idea
eek
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