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 Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:41 pm
Well, are they?
When I say men, I don't mean males by themselves, I mean humans.
I don't think they are. I think that humans are born is a state of neutrality
and from the day of their birth are imprinted with goodness and wickedness.
Now I believe that a being is not solely good nor wicked, but both and can
choose to act upon whichever nature they want to at any given time. Some
act more upon wickedness than they do goodness, and vise-versa, for a few
reasons.
It can be logically said that a person who grows up in a safe environment with
love, attention, and his needs and wants met, will grow up to be good. That
means that a person who grows up in an unsafe environment with no love,
attention and his needs and wants not being met will grow up to be wicked. But
is this really true? I do not believe so. I believe that a person raised in ideal
conditions can become wicked, or act upon wickedness, just as much, if not more
so than a person who was raised in unideal conditions. The same can be
said for the reverse.
It is my belief that through life, we as people, have goodness and wickedness
thrust upon us, and it is our independent choices that allow others to reason
if we are good or evil, forgetting that one can simply not be one or the other.
In my opinion, this is how a society is formed.
One person says that other is wicked, so the "wicked" person becomes
angered and acts upon revenge, which is a wicked act in itself. The rest
of the people now view this "wicked" person as truly wicked because of
his actions, and will most likely view the first person as "good" because
that person brought this wickedness to light, and more or less warned
everyone about it. The "good" person is probably rewarded and the
"wicked" one shunned. Thus, creating a society by separating people into
groups and putting ideas into their heads. I would, depending on what
happened, consider the "good" person as acting upon wickedness because
he single-handedly manipulated a body of people, and made one member
of the group an outcast.
So, what do you think? Are men born evil, or not?
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:55 pm
man(kind) is not born ether way we are born as innocent creatures with is not truly good it means we have not yet had the chance to be good or bad.
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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:03 pm
Every single person is born as neutral. Babies have no idea as to what is going on. The people that baby grows up with usually influences their decisions. Different environment causes different lifestyles.
My example - In my place, we have East side and West side. East side being the bad side of town and West side being the better side. The reason being this, is because there are generally more violence and such over at East. Most people over there being influenced by others, thus creating that back ground. At West, we are very diverse as in to what goes around which makes West a better environment.
If I were to stay at East side, I would probably end up not being a nice person because of the people I would of grown up there.
This whole thing is my opinion.
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:06 am
There is no good or evil in the world, only the perspectives of people who make it so.
A person who grows up in a cannibalistic society would think nothing of killing and eating another person. However, we as a "civilized" society would shun, mock, and put the person in a mental institution or prison if he did it in our realm of judgement. The canabalist would be deemed "evil" while the victim's society is seen as good. In the cannibal's home, they'd see the law as evil and corrupt instead, and their kinsman the one who is the victim.
I'm not sure if you're going for a nature vs nurture argument, however. The majority of the "evil" and "good" ideals that are impressed upon us are apart of our nurtured side. Our nature side is neutral. If a person were left out in the wilderness and told to survive ANY way possible, then he could be viewed as little more than an animal. Animals are neutral creatures in the majority's eyes - they have no concept of good or evil. They just do what they must.
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:21 pm
We were talking about Karl Marx in Russian Studies and it got me thinking.
I have that class right after my Native American's class so that day it was
almost two solid hours of talking about good and evil.
I'd have to agree with you on the perspective thing but disagree.
A lot of people view murder as evil, and in reality, who would say that killing
someone in cold blood isn't a bad, evil thing to do? It's not a good thing to
just get up and put a round through someone's head who hasn't raped, stolen,
murdered, ect. or is it? I can understand killing someone if they killed someone
else but not if they just lived their life, not causing trouble.
I believe there is good and evil in the world. What would you call it if someone
random person held the door open for you, or let you go first at a four
way stop?
What would you call it if someone ran up and kicked a baby in the face, or
smashed a store window?
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:00 pm
That's why so many mass murderers get the insanity plea - people can't comprehend WHY a person would shoot a random person in the face "just because I felt like it" and have no regrets afterwards. Of course, because they're declared insane, they can't be given the death penalty, because that would be "cruel and unjust."
And here I'm going to branch out - it's been a while, so be patient with me if I get a few of the principles wrong. Going to D&D standards, think of the lawful evil class alignment. They have their own moral codes and guidelines to follow and rarely follow society's ideals, which is why they're "evil." However, a lawful evil person could set up a dictatorship and improve the overall life conditions of his constituents.
If he puts a few people to death because they didn't follow HIS laws, or killed a few people to get to that position, is he really considered evil? He doesn't consider himself evil - he's brought about GOOD to his people, even if he cut off a few toes to do it. The fact that a few people don't like him doesn't say much because hey - not EVERYONE can be loved by all of his people.
There's still chaotic evil and neutral evil alignments, but again that's perspectives. Demons are considered chaotic evil, if I recall. In demon society, if they don't kill maliciously without cause or reason, they're considered good (and are likely killed before they ever are summoned, so we never hear about them).
GOOD and EVIL is all about perspectives and history is written by the victors. If the American Civil War hadn't been won by the Americans with the help of the French and Spanish (I think those are the two countries that helped us), John Hancock and all of the founding fathers would have been labelled traitors and killed. Since they didn't, they're immortilized as heros for liberating their fellows from the tyrannical rule of Britain.
Instead of Hitler being a bloodthirsty and crazed person, if he had won World War 2, don't you think he'd likely be remembered as a benevolent and caring leader of his people?
What would you call it if someone random person held the door open for you? That's not goodness - that's being nice. Even defined evil characters can do nice things. From what I think I remember, Hilter gave cars to his friends for birthday presents.
Or let you go first at a four way stop? I'd say they like their car and are just taking a precaution that I'm not a crazy b***h that'll ram them for no reason. XD Then again, I have to wonder if THEY'RE the crazy driver that wants to ram someone for no reason... Or, as before, it's just something NICE people do. That's not true goodness in the world.
What would you call it if someone ran up and kicked a baby in the face? That baby shouldn't have been making funny faces at that person. But no, seriously. I'd probably call the cops and have them deal with the "insane" person. Because again, even insanity is a perspectives thing. That's not a question of good or evil. Plus, it'd be against the law for endangering a minor (and possibly killing them - a kick to the face?).
Or smashed a store window? My first thought would be "juvenile delinquent," the second would be, "is it time for a riot?" There's nothing to call it except breaking the law - not good or evil. Who made that law and why was it made? It was made to protect the owner of the property and the person breaking the window as well - that glass, if it cuts you properly can kill you.
Laws were made to protect people from themselves. However, if there's a law that says "Kill a man every third Tuesday of every other month," would that be evil not to comply? Honestly, with the laws being passed by our Congress nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if murder was legal in a loophole of those bills being passed that no one reads.
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:53 pm
Ren, you never fail to amaze me. xd heart
But I still believe there is good and evil in the world.
Take for example, this very...interesting birthday gift I received.
It's oh so good yet oh...oh so evil. twisted
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:57 pm
lizzardoffire16 Ren, you never fail to amaze me. xd heart Indeed
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:28 pm
lizzardoffire16 Ren, you never fail to amaze me. xd heart But I still believe there is good and evil in the world. Take for example, this very...interesting birthday gift I received. It's oh so good yet oh...oh so evil. twisted Thanks, but I'm not exactly sure why I amaze you. Was it my joke about the baby making faces? It had to be. My views are sort of complicated, honestly. I believe and yet disbelieve. I believe in good and evil - but not as you do. I believe that there are good morals and ideals in this world, as well as evil morals and ideals. I believe that good and evil are perspectives that each person holds in their head, and I don't believe in people being pre-ordained as good or evil.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:30 am
Renette lizzardoffire16 Ren, you never fail to amaze me. xd heart But I still believe there is good and evil in the world. Take for example, this very...interesting birthday gift I received. It's oh so good yet oh...oh so evil. twisted Thanks, but I'm not exactly sure why I amaze you. Was it my joke about the baby making faces? It had to be. My views are sort of complicated, honestly. I believe and yet disbelieve. I believe in good and evil - but not as you do. I believe that there are good morals and ideals in this world, as well as evil morals and ideals. I believe that good and evil are perspectives that each person holds in their head, and I don't believe in people being pre-ordained as good or evil. Oh no, it was the DnD reference. xd I can understand that, some of my views are really complicated too. I agree, there are good and evil morals and ideas in the world, but I also believe that there is goodness and evilness itself in the world. Kicking a baby, to me, would be an act of evilness since the child can't defend itself and couldn't have possibly done anything to deserved being kicked, while someone holding the door open for me would be goodness since they took the time to make my life, just the tiny bit easier.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:53 pm
to the man/woman that kicked a baby in the face that is truely bad but think about it maybe in his/her race/culture it is normal asa way of showing that they have been disgraced or something.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:43 pm
No I think its the part where the person grows up in a bad place on the earth then they meet up with another wicked person and have kids and then they dont really care what the hell there kids do. Im not joking kids these days do anything they want and feel like they want to do i can see it some much in school. cuz when i was in like 6th grade kids were nice and know that im in 9th grade im looking at all the 6th-8th graders and they are way way way worse then what the kids did when i was in 6th grade this world is going to come to a bad ending if this is how people are going to be.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:22 pm
Let me throw this in for Alen. It's already started moving into 3rd graders. I've seen 3rd graders cuss and even talk about porn and crap. I do admit though, our time in 6th grade and before was completely better.
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:56 pm
to add in the future effect men are not born good or evil and they die nether good or evil, but teens and young adults are ether good or bad
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Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:27 pm
we all have are sins in this world and being born is one of the worst sins we are not born evil but but with and with in evil . and so we take the traits of what we learn form growing up . but what is evil ? if you dont know that what you do is bad them is that evil ? if you are taught that you where ment to kill that is was good and no one told you nothing ealse just that it was good , is that evil if we all did that would it be evil . there is no true sins we where not there wend the ten camanments where made . we do not know ture evil , it just a word ...
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