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Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:26 pm
I found this thing on National Geographic News: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/01/0125_050125_chimeras.htmlIt's about fusing human cells with animal cells. It looked controversial, and I was wondering what everyone here might think of it. Unfortunately, I don't have time right now I write anything about it, but I might this weekend. But go ahead! Discuss! I was paraticulary wondering about the question of ethics, i.e. can you give a mouse a human brain, and then conduct animal experiments on it, or would that be wrong? And also, would the animal have a soul, since in some doctrines, non humans don't have souls? Um... yeah.
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:32 am
I don't think they would have souls, but I have no logical argument to support this. It's just a...feeling, I guess. (It very well could be part of God's plan that these new creatures be created through science and He very well may have instilled in them souls, I have no way of knowing...but for some reason I doubt that.)
Although, personally, I'm a little queasy about the idea of this happening at all.
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:33 pm
Me too... I can't really place it, but it doesn't exactly seem right...
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:49 pm
what about ppl who get transplants from animal donors and not human ones...like if you got a kidney from a pig...would you still be considered to be human...i think so...i guess it depends on what's the ratio of human to animal...but this brings me to think what's the major diff between animals and humans...i mean humans are animals but animals are not human...i think the major diff is that humans have consiousness of ourselves and other and of the world around us and animals don't really seems to have that ability...if you have that ability then maybe that's what makes us have souls, so if these "created" being have consiusness then maybe they do have souls, and should be considered humans....wow, i'm done rambling now...
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:40 pm
Anyone see the movie animal? well, this reminds me of that movie. Anyway, I believe that animals already have souls, so...
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Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:16 pm
Psychedelic Midnight I don't think they would have souls, but I have no logical argument to support this. It's just a...feeling, I guess. (It very well could be part of God's plan that these new creatures be created through science and He very well may have instilled in them souls, I have no way of knowing...but for some reason I doubt that.) Although, personally, I'm a little queasy about the idea of this happening at all. same here... i guess if it was meant to be then it was meant to be.. but something just doesnt feel right to me either..
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Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 12:50 pm
Zoemie what about ppl who get transplants from animal donors and not human ones...like if you got a kidney from a pig...would you still be considered to be human...i think so...i guess it depends on what's the ratio of human to animal... but there's a big difference between a kidney or liver transplant and a heart or brain transplant...
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Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:24 am
Much as it would be fascinating to put a pig brain in a human body and see if the pig could learn to use human limbs/vocal cords and the like... I think it's highly unethical. The whole idea just doesn't sit right with me.
As for the soul issue, I feel the same as Chaoticpuppet. I believe animals have souls of their own already... though from a Christian viewpoint, it brings up some interesting questions.
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:41 pm
I am of the strong belief that it is wrong. Mix two things that wouldn't naturally interact. Though, I do, and always have fully believed that every living being possesses a soul, and that every "natural" (non man-made) thing, has a certain level of spiritual connection.
I really think that the entire human race has kind of screwed things up. I mean, you see things about how robots will one day take over the world and stuff, and though it may not happen exactly like that, I do believe that humans as a species will destroy the earth. Curiousity, greed, and intelligence are not always a good mix. Having said this, it stands to reason that I don't believe in these sort of principles. I mean, it would be nice if we could save people by doing transplants with livers and stuff from other animals, but it still is taking one life in exchange for another.
And I have the same questions as Neo-Merlin. I mean, what would happen with a mouse with a human mind? What would they feel, they think, etc. And it raises the question about testing. I have never felt that testing on animals is right in the first place, but it would raise controversy. And about the gene mixtures. What effect would it actually have on the subjects, the actual beings that are the mix. They wouldn't be human or animal. What would they feel? What would they be like? I mean, it's not just mixing two different vegetables here. Animals and people both have lives, they both feel things. And I really don't like how these scientists are wanting to freely experiment like this, with no regard for what they are doing to the nature of the species. I don't think the DNA of humans and animals is meant to combine. And then they want to kill the test creatures afterwards, to see their brains and such. A life is a life, and in the world outside the tiny human conscience that believes everything centers around us, the reality is that we probably really aren't any more important than a mouse or a pig. Sure, we change things a lot more, but perhaps those things weren't meant to be changed. I think that humans are to curious about things, that we try to change things to much. By combining the genetic information of animals and humans, we're going against everything in nature. And I just really don't think it's right.
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:40 pm
I'm suddenly reminded of WWII, when the German troops tried to transplant chimp uterii into Jewish women and thereby prove that Jews are no better than animals.
The experiment failed, of course. The women all died relatively quickly, and were unable to conceive a child...
But this has a lot of the same principle, just without the religious undertone... or at least a different one.
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Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:29 pm
Naeryn I'm suddenly reminded of WWII, when the German troops tried to transplant chimp uterii into Jewish women and thereby prove that Jews are no better than animals. The experiment failed, of course. The women all died relatively quickly, and were unable to conceive a child... But this has a lot of the same principle, just without the religious undertone... or at least a different one. I don't necessarily think that scientists are trying to prove that humans are no better than animals. Maybe this is my blind optimism talking, but I think(/hope) that at most of these people are really only doing this to try and further technology and medicine for the good of humanity. However, I don't think these means will be justified by such an uncertain end.
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Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:43 am
i have heard that they are developing pigs with human genes in order to make transplanting pig organs easier (less rejection). i suppose i am being primitive, but that gives me the shivers. it seems to make the animal nearly human.
another thing i have heard of is growing (cloning, i suppose) human bodies without heads, for organ transplants.
ewww...
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:11 pm
What if the animals start to become as smart as humans? *Forsees Secret of NYMH reanactment* Just seems kind of creepy to have animals with human components in them.
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:44 pm
i look at things from a rather shamanistic viewpoint with the souls. everything has a soul. so the mixing of human and animal would have one. however, people would not want to give a pig or mouse or cat rights because its not human, no matter how intelligent(look at humans with different skin tones sad ) but theres nothing wrong with the creation, just what probably happens(think of robin williams in bicentennial man)
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:57 pm
Psychedelic Midnight Naeryn I'm suddenly reminded of WWII, when the German troops tried to transplant chimp uterii into Jewish women and thereby prove that Jews are no better than animals. The experiment failed, of course. The women all died relatively quickly, and were unable to conceive a child... But this has a lot of the same principle, just without the religious undertone... or at least a different one. I don't necessarily think that scientists are trying to prove that humans are no better than animals. Maybe this is my blind optimism talking, but I think(/hope) that at most of these people are really only doing this to try and further technology and medicine for the good of humanity. However, I don't think these means will be justified by such an uncertain end. As I normally try to be optimistic, I have to remind you of human corruption and the fact that some people just do it for fun and such
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