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 Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:07 pm
http://www.dailyglobal.com/2009/10/god-is-not-the-creator-claims-academic/
Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and author, claims the first sentence of Genesis “in the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth” is not a true translation of the Hebrew.
She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God created the world — and in fact the Earth was already there when he created humans and animals.
Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories from ancient Mesopotamia.
She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb “bara”, which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean “to create” but to “spatially separate”.
The first sentence should now read “in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth”
===
I approve,
I always had a evolutionist's view but I always like putting HASHEM in the mix when I can.
Hashem separated the earth from the heavens is interpreted by me as... Hashem created the invisible force of gravity and spun the stars in such a way that the earth clumped together in just the right spot to support life.
Yeah I can deal with this.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:56 pm
I fail to see how this would effect anyone's day to day life unless they believed Professor Ellen van Wolde has a better translation of Hebrew then scholars who used it as a spoken (and written) language in a time Linguists referred to Hebrew as a dead language.
Then again just my opinion, if this becomes a hot topic please don't yell at me.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:58 pm
ScionoftheBlade I fail to see how this would effect anyone's day to day life unless they believed Professor Ellen van Wolde has a better translation of Hebrew then scholars who used it as a spoken (and written) language in a time Linguists referred to Hebrew as a dead language. Then again just my opinion, if this becomes a hot topic please don't yell at me. Did I just QFT Scion?
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:10 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew ScionoftheBlade I fail to see how this would effect anyone's day to day life unless they believed Professor Ellen van Wolde has a better translation of Hebrew then scholars who used it as a spoken (and written) language in a time Linguists referred to Hebrew as a dead language. Then again just my opinion, if this becomes a hot topic please don't yell at me. Did I just QFT Scion? I have no clue what that means. Isn't QFT Quantum Field Theory? Or am I just hanging out with to many quantum physicists?
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:02 pm
Quoted for truth, as in he agrees with you Scion.
I think this article is interesting because, as with Neuf, I've always thought evolution and the bible could coexist if you were willing to use the free thinking mind that G-d gave you. My biology teacher love my theory on Jacob and Esau!
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:06 pm
kingpinsqeezels Quoted for truth, as in he agrees with you Scion. I think this article is interesting because, as with Neuf, I've always thought evolution and the bible could coexist if you were willing to use the free thinking mind that G-d gave you. My biology teacher love my theory on Jacob and Esau! I'm not sure what your jacob and esau theory is but this doesn't disprove other congruences between the torah and science. There are several major theories for how the two work hand in hand. P.S. Thanks Lumanny
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:10 pm
ScionoftheBlade kingpinsqeezels Quoted for truth, as in he agrees with you Scion. I think this article is interesting because, as with Neuf, I've always thought evolution and the bible could coexist if you were willing to use the free thinking mind that G-d gave you. My biology teacher love my theory on Jacob and Esau! I'm not sure what your jacob and esau theory is but this doesn't disprove other congruences between the torah and science. There are several major theories for how the two work hand in hand. P.S. Thanks Lumanny Well that's nice to know.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:23 pm
kingpinsqeezels ScionoftheBlade kingpinsqeezels Quoted for truth, as in he agrees with you Scion. I think this article is interesting because, as with Neuf, I've always thought evolution and the bible could coexist if you were willing to use the free thinking mind that G-d gave you. My biology teacher love my theory on Jacob and Esau! I'm not sure what your jacob and esau theory is but this doesn't disprove other congruences between the torah and science. There are several major theories for how the two work hand in hand. P.S. Thanks Lumanny Well that's nice to know. I'll elaborate and hope it doesn't offend anyone. 1. There are several references that 1 day to G-d isn't like a regular day. Ergo the time-line of creation of 5 "days" before humans came, is actually five time periods before the creation of man. 2. Each "day" was actually an entire world/possibly civilization that existed on earth. The sixth "day" is what we live on now. Fossils etc. are remnants of previous "days" 3. Its a well documented phenomenon that pressure causes radioactive isotopes to age at a faster pace then usual. If one follows the majority of Midrashim before the Mabul many many creatures existed that don't exist today. Furthermore, the Mabul was (acc. to Midrash) severe enough to destroy 12 feet of topsoil on mountaintops, ergo the pressure would have significantly aged anything beneath it. 4. In conjunction with any of these about finding like "Lucy", Many Midrashim talk about how pre-Mabul Man was able to mate and produce offspring with animals. 5. (This one can be shot to hell and stand the same as it does when you first read it) G-d created the world with fossils etc. to keep free will alive and make people question the world they live in. I'm sure there are more answers but this is all I got for now. If there are any questions I'll respond unless it gets out of hand.
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Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:28 pm
I'm not saying those things aren't plausible, in fact they all seem like very reasonable explanations.
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:00 pm
ScionoftheBlade kingpinsqeezels ScionoftheBlade kingpinsqeezels Quoted for truth, as in he agrees with you Scion. I think this article is interesting because, as with Neuf, I've always thought evolution and the bible could coexist if you were willing to use the free thinking mind that G-d gave you. My biology teacher love my theory on Jacob and Esau! I'm not sure what your jacob and esau theory is but this doesn't disprove other congruences between the torah and science. There are several major theories for how the two work hand in hand. P.S. Thanks Lumanny Well that's nice to know. I'll elaborate and hope it doesn't offend anyone. 1. There are several references that 1 day to G-d isn't like a regular day. Ergo the time-line of creation of 5 "days" before humans came, is actually five time periods before the creation of man. 2. Each "day" was actually an entire world/possibly civilization that existed on earth. The sixth "day" is what we live on now. Fossils etc. are remnants of previous "days" 3. Its a well documented phenomenon that pressure causes radioactive isotopes to age at a faster pace then usual. If one follows the majority of Midrashim before the Mabul many many creatures existed that don't exist today. Furthermore, the Mabul was (acc. to Midrash) severe enough to destroy 12 feet of topsoil on mountaintops, ergo the pressure would have significantly aged anything beneath it. 4. In conjunction with any of these about finding like "Lucy", Many Midrashim talk about how pre-Mabul Man was able to mate and produce offspring with animals. 5. (This one can be shot to hell and stand the same as it does when you first read it) G-d created the world with fossils etc. to keep free will alive and make people question the world they live in. I'm sure there are more answers but this is all I got for now. If there are any questions I'll respond unless it gets out of hand. How the hell are we on Day 6? Bereishit says G-d already rested on Day 7, that's why we have Shabbat. We're on Day Nine at the very earliest. Or maybe Day 8....
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:00 pm
Is Scion suggesting the 1-5 statements he made correlate to the "days" or what? What are those 5 statements about? They confuse me!
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:38 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew ScionoftheBlade kingpinsqeezels ScionoftheBlade kingpinsqeezels Quoted for truth, as in he agrees with you Scion. I think this article is interesting because, as with Neuf, I've always thought evolution and the bible could coexist if you were willing to use the free thinking mind that G-d gave you. My biology teacher love my theory on Jacob and Esau! I'm not sure what your jacob and esau theory is but this doesn't disprove other congruences between the torah and science. There are several major theories for how the two work hand in hand. P.S. Thanks Lumanny Well that's nice to know. I'll elaborate and hope it doesn't offend anyone. 1. There are several references that 1 day to G-d isn't like a regular day. Ergo the time-line of creation of 5 "days" before humans came, is actually five time periods before the creation of man. 2. Each "day" was actually an entire world/possibly civilization that existed on earth. The sixth "day" is what we live on now. Fossils etc. are remnants of previous "days" 3. Its a well documented phenomenon that pressure causes radioactive isotopes to age at a faster pace then usual. If one follows the majority of Midrashim before the Mabul many many creatures existed that don't exist today. Furthermore, the Mabul was (acc. to Midrash) severe enough to destroy 12 feet of topsoil on mountaintops, ergo the pressure would have significantly aged anything beneath it. 4. In conjunction with any of these about finding like "Lucy", Many Midrashim talk about how pre-Mabul Man was able to mate and produce offspring with animals. 5. (This one can be shot to hell and stand the same as it does when you first read it) G-d created the world with fossils etc. to keep free will alive and make people question the world they live in. I'm sure there are more answers but this is all I got for now. If there are any questions I'll respond unless it gets out of hand. How the hell are we on Day 6? Bereishit says G-d already rested on Day 7, that's why we have Shabbat. We're on Day Nine at the very earliest. Or maybe Day 8.... Oh forgot that, this won't go over well but the midrash goes that since G-d exists outside time we are in the 6th day Meshiach is the 7th day. G-d rests when Meshiach comes. @Behatz- days refer to the "days" in Bereishis where G-d creates the world.
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Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:10 pm
I think that's a nice way to look at things.
So, do a majority of Jews think moshiach will be an actual person?
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