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I don't have much time to comment on the subject right now, but this thread is being moved to the main forum for more exposure; such things usually help ignite the debates. 3nodding

*cracks knuckles*
One reason: Metagame.
The in-game battling has its own free-for-all system. You can use those strategies there very effectively. (I went into the Battle Tower in-game and one time got whooped by an Absol that used Double Team x50 and then Swords Dance x50. mad D)

Some of these strategies, though, rely on luck. Therefore, both have been deemed unfair.

OHKO: You set up some great defenses and have the great potential of walling someone to death. Then someone OHKOs you. This renders your strategy useless due to luck. (This is also why some items, like Focus Band and Quick Claw, are banned because they are items that involve luck and give great effects.) If this was permitted, metagame battling would be reduced to seeing who can be more accurate with OHKOs. Certain berries and items increase accuracy too, so 30% can be increased. Yes, it's still inaccurate, but the probability of getting an OHKO in two or three chances is very high.

Evasion boosting moves: You battle someone's wall, and they use Double Team like crazy. Not only are you inaccurate, but sure-to-hit moves barely scratch a wall and can be healed. Also, the Pokemon could sweep easily. Plus, if Baton Pass is a possible move, you could have a Pokemon with Uber Attack and weak Defenses come out on ya with no fear. Therefore, the underhanded trick of lowering accuracy is banned. Planning movesets for the metagame is hard enough without accuracy to consider.

OHKO Reply: Well with all the extensive double team or stat boost, you seem to know that doing these techniques will grant you safty...Now I will use the KO move as a last resort, as if I cant hit him at all, this KO hit will make the person feel like all his planning and boosting went to waste... Last time he will ever boost up his stat then xD

Evasion boosting reply: So the pokemon Ninjask, and Yanmega are banned? Cause IT IS possible to fight pokemon that increase there stat and still get a guarantee win.. It depends on what the trainer has to use to stop it... Such as Haze, I think its the trainer problem if he forgot how to deal with other trainers when they using stat boosting.

Those are major clauses in battling. If one were to take those out, why not remove all the clauses?

Mighty Maxz's argument can be for almost an clause. But when one thinks about all the clauses together that is where the problem comes in.

What if Zetshimaru put every pokemon to sleep while Zetshimaru is raising Zetshimaru's pokemon Evasion and accuracy while Zetshimaru's foe is asleep.

Now Zetshimaru will start spamming one hit knock out moves.

There are more then a few pokemon that could do this or similar tactics. There is not much one can do to stop this other then have a pokemon with insomnia as an ability. Even then, the trainer may just switch to a pokemon that uses this plan with paralyze instead. Or a pokemon with sturdy, but as walls these pokemon are not the best attacks and can easily be taken out with the right pokemon. Which the trainer is most likely to have to counter the one weakness.

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Again different combos of clauses are needed some one could easily spam both the species and uber clauses.

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Now all these moves are in the game true. And there are ways to counter each and every one. But what would happen to battling? There would be major changes that take away from more pokemon then it would give to others. As the game is now, there are pokemon that are not very good true, but with the clauses much more pokemon are "able" to battle. The clauses make it more fair then taking away from the game.

Many different things also have similar effects. Like right now Zetshimaru has been reading Marvel Comics. One could view the character matching (who fights who) to being limited like clauses. But how boring would it be to see Spider-Man (a street level super hero) battle the Wrecking Crew (A group of 4 humans given god powers that battle Thor, God of Thunder)? Or even the other way around, with out balance (the clauses) things get really boring, really quickly.

And now to hope this doesn't sound like rambling.

Rain check: Pokemon is an PRG, not a fighting game. If you want to use both concepts at once, go with Dissidia Final Fantasy.

There are pokemon that can learn OHKO moves to cover all types. If someone were to take a pokemon like that into a double battle with Machamp, the chances of winning is very slim, specially if Machamp has Protect/Detect. Needless to mention items such as Wide Lens.

I already discussed Evasion. If you can't hit something, and it only gets stronger, there is no way you can win if when you do manage to hit, the attack doesn't do anything. It takes no skill to set such a thing up.

Seriously, dude, read my post. You're fighting a losing battle.

On the issue of both OHKO moves, and Self-evasion boosting moves: it simply removes competitiveness from the game and then becomes simply a game of chance. Now then, yes there is a bit of randomness factor involved, but when put to this degree the risk is outweighed by the reward.

When you raise your own evasiveness, the only way for you to stop is to carry haze. How viable is haze on a pokemon? Let's say both a special and physical sweeper carry double team, what are the chances that both your physical and special walls will carry haze?

How many bulky pokemon can actually learn haze, and viable use it?

Those moves were put in to satisfy the casual player.


Now then, you can use attacks (Flash, Sand-attack) to lower your foe's accuracy, because they can easily play around that (Switching).

Taken from Smogon: "In competitive Pokémon, there are several standard rules used in every match. These rules are called clauses, and they serve to stop some over-powerful strategies, reduce the role that luck can play in a match, and overall just make the game more enjoyable."

Jolteon uses Double team.
You try to hit double team, you miss.
Jolteon uses double team.
You miss and are now less likely to hit him.
Repeat above steps 4 times.
Now you have a /very/ low chance of hitting jolteon and now it's using agility to get strong.
You still haven't hit it.
Jolteon uses Baton pass and switches to some overly powerful but slow pokemon.
You missed the pokemon.
Said pokemon owns your team.
You never got to hit your opponent once.

You see the problem with double team, it just puts waaay to much luck into the equation and the fact that you get less and less of a chance to hit after each boost is really unfair.

Individual boosts are different as you have a chance of KOing or protecting yourself against a pokemon while they are getting the boost.
Double team on the other hand lessens your chance with each turn.

Creating counters to these teams will also grow increasingly difficult seeing that you would have to replace things on your already really limited teams. (6 pokemon and 4 moves for each anyone?)
Considering only so many pokemon can haze or do something that can cancel out the effects of these boosts, and most of these pokemon are normally not too good (Simple(that's the ability right?) Bibarel anyone?)
Using moves that always hit would also lessen your arcenal since most always hitting moves don't do too much damage(aerial ace) and would involve replacing a far more useful and practical move(Brave Bird?) just to challenge a simple move. It would be much more fun and enjoyable if someone just banned the move from play, as it does effect the metagame waaay too much and really makes it not enjoyable.

Now the same can apply to 1hko moves, especially when you just combine them with something else, like lock on or something on those lines.
If you give your pokemon things that can counter 1hko's move, it will effect eh standard play too much and make way too many changes and the fact 1hko moves are just so cheap in general, it's really not fair, since it's so reliant on luck.

You see the problem right.