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A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:03 am


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The symbol of the swastika means different things to many people. This symbol is over four-thousand years old, and is thought to have originated with Hinduism. In the last sixty years is has become very well known as the symbol of the Nazis and has since carried connotations of hatred, racism and religious discrimination in the Western world.

Religious meanings of the swastika:

Hinduism: It is seen as pointing in all four direction (North, East, South and West) and thus signifies stability and groundedness. It is used as a good-luck symbol.

Buddhism: The swastika used in Buddhist art and scripture is known as a manji, and represents Dharma, universal harmony, and the balance of opposites.

Jainism: In Jainism, the swastika symbol is combined with that of a hand. It is a symbol of the seventh Jina (Saint), the Tirthankara Suparsva. It is considered to be one of the 24 auspicious marks and the emblem of the seventh arhat of the present age.

Christianity: Although some Christian churches built in the Romanesque and Gothic eras are decorated with swastikas, carrying over earlier Roman designs, the swastika does not appear to have been given any special symbolism or significance.

Native Americans: The symbol was known to Native Americans before white men made an appearance. Its meaning varied from tribe to tribe but it was usually a healing symbol.

Occultism: The symbol is known as the fylfot cross and represents swirling energy.

Recent history of the swastika:
In Europe, the swastika, then known as the fylfot, was used in heraldry. In the early 1900s the symbol was used on various military uniforms throughout Europe and even one of the infantry divisions of the US army. In 1920 the swastika was officially adopted as the symbol of the Nazi party in Germany.

Allegedly, the Nazis believed that the early Aryans of India, from whose Vedic tradition the swastika sprang, were the prototypical white invaders. Thus, they saw fit to co-opt the sign as a symbol of the Aryan master race.

Since the fall of Nazi Germany, the symbol has generally been seen as taboo by the entire western world. It is most commonly seen as a symbol of hatred, most particularly against Jews and non-whites.

More info on the swastika in general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

The Nazi symbol vs the holy symbol:

Most recently, Prince Harry of England was seen wearing a Nazi uniform, complete with a swastika armband. Prompted by this incident, in the last few weeks, European parliaments have been discussing a Europe-wide ban of the symbol. The symbol is already banned in Germany. Hearing of the potential ban, nearly a million Hindus in Europe have been standing up to prevent the ban, as this symbol is still sacred to them.

An article on this can be found here: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050125/325/fb02f.html
Edit: The original article is no longer online, but an article with similar info can be found here: http://in.news.yahoo.com/050115/137/2j1cr.html

Quote:
Hindus have launched a campaign to "reclaim" the swastika from its Nazi past and reinstate the 5,000-year-old emblem as a symbol of good luck.

Ever sensitive to the concerns of millions of Jews who suffered the horrors of the Nazi Holocaust, he told Reuters: "For Hindus, the misuse of the swastika is as repulsive as it is to everyone else.

"It's like saying the Ku Klux Klan is burning crosses so let's ban the use of crosses worldwide."

"In Gujarat, when a baby has its first haircut, a swastika is painted on the top of its head to ward off evil. You find it on the door of the house as a good luck charm. It appears on wedding cards and holy paintings," Kallidai said.


~*~*~

Feel free to post about anything having to do with the swastika in this thread. Keep in mind though, that this symbol means good luck to some but hatred and racism to others. Also keep in mind that this guild has members who both stand for and stand against the Nazi party.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:18 am


Personally, I do not feel the symbol should be banned anywhere (including public schools) as long as it is apparent that it is not being represented in a hateful manner.

In fact, looking at the nightstand that my great great grandfather carved, (it doubles as my altar during full moons,) I can count five swastikas carved into it. Even though my great great grandfather was Polish, he made the nightstand to have a Japanese motif.

A Murder of Angels
Captain


Yumi Morioto

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:34 am


murder, that sounds like a lovely alter i have to use my bookshelf because my mom thinks that paegsns will burn in hell anyways on the matter of swastika i was brought up that its badbut i think it is like a sign of the energy that is swirling to make chaos so i have asked the spirit of the swastika into my sacred space not so bad any more.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:50 am


Dang, I wish I could post such elaborate topics...

Anyway, the swastika should definately NOT be banned. Doing so would deprive people of their religious right to a religious symbol, something european parlaments are not permitted to do. So, I think that the banning of the swastika is just empty speculation. Think of teh huge Hindu population in Europe, mostly the UK? Can you say revolt?

Son of Axeman
Crew


Psychedelic Midnight

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:47 am


I think that the swastika shouldn't be banned whether it's being used as a holy symbol or a Nazi symbol, personally.
But then, I'm not Jewish or any of the persecuted groups (save perhaps for the Catholics whom they probably also didn't like too much) so I might just be a member of the stereotypically insensitive white majority. smile
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:09 pm


Well, going by that mentality, they should also ban crosses, since people have committed horrors upon horrors using that symbol. Just look at the spanish inquisitions and KKK, if you need a recent group. Most Christians are disgusted and insulted that people would use the cross in such a manner, but it doesn't make the cross a bad symbol.

The hindus have the right to use that symbol. Nazis, sadly, have the right to use that symbol as well. However, more people should be educated in what that symbol really means, because at an early age everyone learns that the swastica means Nazi party. They should be teaching children that that symbol really means peace and good luck and that the Nazis abused that symbol and ruined the meaning, much like the KKK does the cross.

Tigress Dawn

Hygienic Noob


A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 2:15 pm


Psychedelic Midnight
I think that the swastika shouldn't be banned whether it's being used as a holy symbol or a Nazi symbol, personally.
But then, I'm not Jewish or any of the persecuted groups (save perhaps for the Catholics whom they probably also didn't like too much) so I might just be a member of the stereotypically insensitive white majority. smile


Actually, I'm reading a book at this very moment about secret treaties between the Vatican and Hitler and Mussolini. There's reasons the Vatican issued so many apologies after World War II.

Where I've grown up, which admitedly is NOT a very racist place at all, I've seen a very specific case where banning it as a Nazi symbol SHOULD be done.

Back when I was in middle school, I knew a Jewish girl and a German boy. They liked each other and I'm sure if they were still there in high school they'd be dating. I'm not sure WHY the person did it, but he wouls slip papers into both of their lockers that had swastikas on them. One day, the boy caught the other guy doing it and punched him in the face, then jumped on him and kept punching him until the teachers pulled him off. Both the German kid and the other kid got suspended for a week.

That's why I believe it SHOULD be banned when meant to be in a hateful manner.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:50 am


Well this thread is most informative and time saving. woot!

I don't think they should ban it, the argument is basicly the same as others with the KKK and the cross and all. As we can see the swastika is a symbol of many meanings and so banning it for one reason is preety lame. Infact I think it's preety pointless to keep saying it's bad because Nazis used to use it. There are thigns from that time that man would do well to remember but somehtign as small as that is not really any use as a memory.

Neo_Merlin


Captain Jack Sporky
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:23 pm


Amusing anecdote!: My dad spent several years living in a Navaho reservation as a child, when his parents were teachers there. He grew an affinity to Navaho rugs, and he lines our banister(our living room has an opening into the second floor) with Navaho rugs. One of the rugs had a swatstika on it. When I was a child, my babysitter looked at the rug and asked, "Are you guys German?"
"No," I replied.
She gave me a funny look, and we never saw HER again. xd Actually, if you compare the two, the symbol used by Native Americans is backwards compared to the German one.0.o
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:38 pm


Captain Jack Sporky
Amusing anecdote!: My dad spent several years living in a Navaho reservation as a child, when his parents were teachers there. He grew an affinity to Navaho rugs, and he lines our banister(our living room has an opening into the second floor) with Navaho rugs. One of the rugs had a swatstika on it. When I was a child, my babysitter looked at the rug and asked, "Are you guys German?"
"No," I replied.
She gave me a funny look, and we never saw HER again. xd Actually, if you compare the two, the symbol used by Native Americans is backwards compared to the German one.0.o

Actually, I believe the original swastika symbol WAS the other way. Much the way many satanists invert the cross and the pentacle, the Nazis inverted it to mean the opposite of what it always meant, negativity instead of positivity.

...at least that's what I've heard.

Nay-rinn

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A Murder of Angels
Captain

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:29 am


Naeryn
Captain Jack Sporky
Actually, if you compare the two, the symbol used by Native Americans is backwards compared to the German one.0.o

Actually, I believe the original swastika symbol WAS the other way. Much the way many satanists invert the cross and the pentacle, the Nazis inverted it to mean the opposite of what it always meant, negativity instead of positivity.

...at least that's what I've heard.


Actually, both Hindus and Buddhists use the swastika facing different directions to mean different things. There is no particular way to face a swastika to give it a negative meaning.

However, I have noticed that Nazis turned their swastika so that a point is upward rather than the top being horizontal. I'm not sure how much that matters though. It's just a personal observation.
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:27 pm


from what i have been told, with a Hindu background, the "arm pointing to the right" means good life.

Kalorn
Crew

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Religious Tolerance

 
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