Serious question

[rmcdra]

In Medias Res IV

rmcdra

Also from a mystic's point of view, following a religion because of a promise for what will happen when you die kinda blocks the relationship with one's god/s. To be honest, yeah I have scriptures telling me how to get to Heaven but I'm starting to think that Heaven isn't necessarily a place one goes when they die but rather a state one achieves.

As for the afterlife, I've come to terms with that. I know that tradition teaches me that I will go to Hell for taking the views that I have but I accept that what ever judgment God has for me I will accept because I have faith that I am following the path that I am needed to.

EXACTLY! heart

G-d gave us the tools to live in heaven, on earth. This is heaven. This is the only heaven we know of for sure so we better make the best of it.

Now I wouldn't go that far to say that this world is heaven on earth. Being a mathematician and being gnostic and all there are things that are less than ideal here. Now I'm not saying that we should hate or be repulsed by this world but recognize it for what it is. I mean I enjoy video games and they simulate things quite accurately but I still recognize that its just a model of a world we can't even begin to comprehend.  

[Gornwen]

But the world we have now is the closest we'll know while living to heaven and therefore should do our best to bring about God's Kingdom on Earth, in the sense that it is one as full of love and respect as is possible for humans.  

[rmcdra]

Gornwen

But the world we have now is the closest we'll know while living to heaven and therefore should do our best to bring about God's Kingdom on Earth, in the sense that it is one as full of love and respect as is possible for humans.

Exactly.  

[Zslone2]

Ok seeing how this topic is serious question and I happen to not know anything deep about Christianity I have this question for anyone its not specific to one religion. If you are engaged (im not) and you have never been to Church/Holy place of Worship where you need to go through something so your allowed to be married there. Then where can you be married? This just happened to be on my mind because I remembered people have to go to church and do some special class or something so you can be married in a church so how do people marry if they cant in church and its two different Religions?  

[In Medias Res IV]

Zslone2

Ok seeing how this topic is serious question and I happen to not know anything deep about Christianity I have this question for anyone its not specific to one religion. If you are engaged (im not) and you have never been to Church/Holy place of Worship where you need to go through something so your allowed to be married there. Then where can you be married? This just happened to be on my mind because I remembered people have to go to church and do some special class or something so you can be married in a church so how do people marry if they cant in church and its two different Religions?

You can go to city hall...

You don't have to be married in a church to be married.

Nor do you have to be married in a church to have a religious marriage in the eyes of G-d. *cough* Synagogue *cough* Mosque...  

[In Medias Res IV]

rmcdra

In Medias Res IV

rmcdra

Also from a mystic's point of view, following a religion because of a promise for what will happen when you die kinda blocks the relationship with one's god/s. To be honest, yeah I have scriptures telling me how to get to Heaven but I'm starting to think that Heaven isn't necessarily a place one goes when they die but rather a state one achieves.

As for the afterlife, I've come to terms with that. I know that tradition teaches me that I will go to Hell for taking the views that I have but I accept that what ever judgment God has for me I will accept because I have faith that I am following the path that I am needed to.

EXACTLY! heart

G-d gave us the tools to live in heaven, on earth. This is heaven. This is the only heaven we know of for sure so we better make the best of it.

Now I wouldn't go that far to say that this world is heaven on earth. Being a mathematician and being gnostic and all there are things that are less than ideal here. Now I'm not saying that we should hate or be repulsed by this world but recognize it for what it is. I mean I enjoy video games and they simulate things quite accurately but I still recognize that its just a model of a world we can't even begin to comprehend.

I still don't grasp Christian gnosticism D:  

[Zslone2]

*cough* im a pagan *cough*  

[Lumanny the Space Jew]

I have never believed that Non- Christians will go to Hell. I've been a Reform Jew all my life! For the record, I don't even believe in Heaven and Hell but Gan Eden and Ghenna, though there are many different beliefs regarding afterlife in Judaism.

My father is Catholic and he does not believe in this principle; He hates it, really. He even changed Churches because of that being preached.

Also, explain this:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/4944

Quote:

An Exchange With a Missionary
by Rabbi Aron Moss

It is generally not advisable to engage in conversation with missionaries. Sometimes, it may be unavoidable...


Note: It is generally not advisable to engage in conversation with missionaries. Sometimes, it may be unavoidable...

"Jews for Jesus" Missionary: Rabbi, do you know that you will only be saved when you accept Jesus as the Messiah?

Rabbi Moss: Really? Do you really believe that I am doomed if I don't accept Jesus?

J4J: Of course. He died for our sins. If you don't accept him, your sins remain yours. And we all sin, don't we?

RM: Sure. So, let's say I never accept Jesus, what will happen to me?

J4J: You will be punished for your sins.

RM: You mean I'll go to Hell?

J4J: Well, yeah.

RM: But I assume you'll go to Heaven, because you have accepted Jesus, right?

J4J: Very good rabbi! And I'm still Jewish, too. My grandparents died in the Holocaust.

RM: Your grandparents were Jewish?

J4J: Yes.

RM: And they were killed by the Nazis?

J4J: Yes.

RM: You know, many of the Nazis were believing Christians.

J4J: Yeah, but not all Christians are...

RM: Of course, most Christians despise Nazism. But let me ask you: According to your beliefs, the Jewish victims of the Nazis - your grandparents, one million children, and millions of others - where are their souls now?

J4J: Well... they're...

RM: You can tell me, this is an open discussion.

J4J: They're in Hell.

RM: And the Nazis who murdered them, those who did believe in Jesus, where would they be now?

J4J: Well, they're in Heaven. Jesus would have forgiven them. Jesus is about love, not...

RM: Love?! Correct me if I'm wrong, but you represent an organisation that believes that vicious murderers are rewarded in Heaven and their innocent victims are punished in Hell. In your worldview, no matter how cruel and barbaric someone is in their lifetime, they'll be fine in the afterlife, as long as they say they accept Jesus. And you want to present this as a valid and respectable ideology, suitable for Jews to believe!? I think the morality is a bit twisted there.

J4J: I'll pray for you, rabbi. One day you'll see the truth. And you'll join us.

RM: I hope not. Hell doesn't sound so bad after all, if I'll be with your grandparents and all the other holy Jewish martyrs. And I'm not so sure I'd want to be in Heaven with guys who think like you!

I believe that all good people will got to Gan Eden and all bad people will go to Ghenna for punishment and then come to Gan Eden after invaariably being forgiven. Religion shouldn't matter in that regard to me- since there is no proff towards any religion, it's basically the thought that counts. That's why we Jews only convert those who come to us first.
Though I believe Judasim is right, if there is a Chriatian or a Muslim who is more charitable and caring of a person than I am he just might beat me to Gan Eden, if you know what I mean.

I feel it's more so about ethics than anything else.  

[In Medias Res IV]

Lumanny the Space Jew

I have never believed that Non- Christians will go to Hell. I've been a Reform Jew all my life! For the record, I don't even believe in Heaven and Hell but Gan Eden and Ghenna, though there are many different beliefs regarding afterlife in Judaism.

My father is Catholic and he does not believe in this principle; He hates it, really. He even changed Churches because of that being preached.

Also, explain this:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/4944

Quote:

An Exchange With a Missionary
by Rabbi Aron Moss

It is generally not advisable to engage in conversation with missionaries. Sometimes, it may be unavoidable...


Note: It is generally not advisable to engage in conversation with missionaries. Sometimes, it may be unavoidable...

"Jews for Jesus" Missionary: Rabbi, do you know that you will only be saved when you accept Jesus as the Messiah?

Rabbi Moss: Really? Do you really believe that I am doomed if I don't accept Jesus?

J4J: Of course. He died for our sins. If you don't accept him, your sins remain yours. And we all sin, don't we?

RM: Sure. So, let's say I never accept Jesus, what will happen to me?

J4J: You will be punished for your sins.

RM: You mean I'll go to Hell?

J4J: Well, yeah.

RM: But I assume you'll go to Heaven, because you have accepted Jesus, right?

J4J: Very good rabbi! And I'm still Jewish, too. My grandparents died in the Holocaust.

RM: Your grandparents were Jewish?

J4J: Yes.

RM: And they were killed by the Nazis?

J4J: Yes.

RM: You know, many of the Nazis were believing Christians.

J4J: Yeah, but not all Christians are...

RM: Of course, most Christians despise Nazism. But let me ask you: According to your beliefs, the Jewish victims of the Nazis - your grandparents, one million children, and millions of others - where are their souls now?

J4J: Well... they're...

RM: You can tell me, this is an open discussion.

J4J: They're in Hell.

RM: And the Nazis who murdered them, those who did believe in Jesus, where would they be now?

J4J: Well, they're in Heaven. Jesus would have forgiven them. Jesus is about love, not...

RM: Love?! Correct me if I'm wrong, but you represent an organisation that believes that vicious murderers are rewarded in Heaven and their innocent victims are punished in Hell. In your worldview, no matter how cruel and barbaric someone is in their lifetime, they'll be fine in the afterlife, as long as they say they accept Jesus. And you want to present this as a valid and respectable ideology, suitable for Jews to believe!? I think the morality is a bit twisted there.

J4J: I'll pray for you, rabbi. One day you'll see the truth. And you'll join us.

RM: I hope not. Hell doesn't sound so bad after all, if I'll be with your grandparents and all the other holy Jewish martyrs. And I'm not so sure I'd want to be in Heaven with guys who think like you!

I believe that all good people will got to Gan Eden and all bad people will go to Ghenna for punishment and then come to Gan Eden after invaariably being forgiven. Religion shouldn't matter in that regard to me- since there is no proff towards any religion, it's basically the thought that counts. That's why we Jews only convert those who come to us first.
Though I believe Judasim is right, if there is a Chriatian or a Muslim who is more charitable and caring of a person than I am he just might beat me to Gan Eden, if you know what I mean.

I feel it's more so about ethics than anything else.

heart So much love in your direction, Lumanny!  

[Nines19]

In Medias Res IV

So Jews get into heaven because they know Adonai, as do Muslims.

(My beliefs)
Absolutely - unless they were dicks to Him for whatever reason*, or again for whatever reason don't want to go to heaven.

*Most especially, if they used His name to commit atrocities against His teaching, like Hitler for example. (Someone quoted Mein Kampf a while back where he said that his extermination of the Jews was to be done because "the Lord wants it" or some kind of rubbish to that effect.)

Zslone2

*cough* im a pagan *cough*

You can probably find an ordained priest or priestess who would and could do the ceremony for you. Check WitchVox, but be careful because some people are just dicks.

(...yes, I like using the word "dicks".)  

[GaleNexus]

Ahkmill

... You just made me question my religion for the 50th time. XD

There is no reason for you to believe Jesus has anything to give you if you don't believe in the doctrine he saves you from. I'm not gunna come in here all "CHRIST IS THE ONLY GOD AND YOU'RE A HEEEEEEAAAAAATHEN!" Not even I know this for sure. It's just a personal leap of faith and a personal choice. Sure, if you ever wanted to hear about Jesus Christ and his love, I would be totally happy to oblige. But, I won't shove it down your throat.

I TOTALLY agree smile