The Oath made by the gods of the Gael

[Bastemhet]

So, I've seen it said that the Celtic gods cannot be worshipped by people who are not of the Gael. Where exactly in the literature is this oath?  

[too2sweet]

This thread from the M&R goes over some of that info.  

[Bastemhet]

too2sweet

This thread from the M&R goes over some of that info.

Thanks for that. From reading that thread I see it's in the LGE but I don't know what that is. I'm also not sure what part I should be looking at.  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

So, I've seen it said that the Celtic gods cannot be worshipped by people who are not of the Gael.

Small correction here. The Gods who participated in the oath to the Gael do not acknowledge the actions of those who are not of the Gael.

Celt is a super group. The Gael are a sub group within that super group. There are other gods of the Celts who, to the best of my knowledge, have no such prohibition.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

So, I've seen it said that the Celtic gods cannot be worshipped by people who are not of the Gael.

Small correction here. The Gods who participated in the oath to the Gael do not acknowledge the actions of those who are not of the Gael.

Celt is a super group. The Gael are a sub group within that super group. There are other gods of the Celts who, to the best of my knowledge, have no such prohibition.

Ah, ok. I remember seeing that Bridget and Lugh were not bound to this oath because they came afterward. Perhaps they're the ones you are thinking of?

Also, if the Gael are just a sub group, and someone wanted to practice Celtic Recon, could they not do this without trying to apply to be part of the Gael? Would that be the difference between the P-Celts and Q-Celts? Or the difference between the Gael and the Bretons?  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

Perhaps they're the ones you are thinking of?

Amongst the gods of the Gael, yes. Amongst the gods of the Celts, they are but a couple of the numerous gods who aren't bound to the Gael by the oaths.

Quote:

Also, if the Gael are just a sub group, and someone wanted to practice Celtic Recon, could they not do this without trying to apply to be part of the Gael?

Potentially. Depends on which group of Celts they were interested in.

Quote:

Would that be the difference between the P-Celts and Q-Celts?

The quick answer is "a sound made within the language groups."
wink

I'll dig through my notes and post more stuff later if Cu hasn't beaten me to it.  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Perhaps they're the ones you are thinking of?

Amongst the gods of the Gael, yes. Amongst the gods of the Celts, they are but a couple of the numerous gods who aren't bound to the Gael by the oaths.

Quote:

Also, if the Gael are just a sub group, and someone wanted to practice Celtic Recon, could they not do this without trying to apply to be part of the Gael?

Potentially. Depends on which group of Celts they were interested in.

Quote:

Would that be the difference between the P-Celts and Q-Celts?

The quick answer is "a sound made within the language groups."
wink

I'll dig through my notes and post more stuff later if Cu hasn't beaten me to it.

The P Celtic languages are different than the Q Celtic Languages.
The Q Celtic languages use a hard C sound more than the P Celtic Languages who use a P sound.

The Welsh word for "what", for example, is pé where the Irish is cé.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Also, if the Gael are just a sub group, and someone wanted to practice Celtic Recon, could they not do this without trying to apply to be part of the Gael?

Potentially. Depends on which group of Celts they were interested in.

My. I've only heard of the Gael and the Bretons, how many more are there? Might you or Cu have a secondary resource that can expand upon the history? This is interesting, but I just can't spare any more time taking classes on something like this when my uni is barely letting me get away with a Bachelor's. MAYBE a minor, if I'm lucky. neutral

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Would that be the difference between the P-Celts and Q-Celts?

The quick answer is "a sound made within the language groups."
wink

Eheh... sweatdrop I mollify myself knowing that most things can be made clearer with a little perseverance.

TeaDidikai

I'll dig through my notes and post more stuff later if Cu hasn't beaten me to it.

Thanks kindly. I appreciate the time and effort.  

[Bastemhet]

CuAnnan

The P Celtic languages are different than the Q Celtic Languages.
The Q Celtic languages use a hard C sound more than the P Celtic Languages who use a P sound.

The Welsh word for "what", for example, is pé where the Irish is cé.

Thanks for your company. smile

Is language the main divisor? Are there other cultural peculiarities that would increase the significance of this division?  

[CuAnnan]

Sophist

CuAnnan

The P Celtic languages are different than the Q Celtic Languages.
The Q Celtic languages use a hard C sound more than the P Celtic Languages who use a P sound.

The Welsh word for "what", for example, is pé where the Irish is cé.

Thanks for your company. smile

Is language the main divisor? Are there other cultural peculiarities that would increase the significance of this division?

They're completley different cultures.  

[TeaDidikai]

D'oh! I carried over the discussion of languages where it shouldn't have been.

My bad.  

[Bastemhet]

I was wondering if anyone wanted to comment on this:

Quote:

Firstly, this thread on beliefnet led me to looking in the specific text mentioned by Tomas (whom I'm inclined to trust, being a leader in Gaelic recon circles).

And this is the only English translation I could find of In Gabail tSida: The Taking of the Sidhe Mound, located in the Book of Leinster. It's a mythological tale, and it seems to be the only kind of covenant of this nature (which seems to be different than an oath, as far as I can tell) I can find in the lore.

This covenant is an agreement between the Dagda and the sons of Mil (the new conquerors of Ireland) to stop the Tuatha De (the previous conquerors of Ireland) from... taking their milk and grain.

If one read this broadly, one could take it as an agreement between the Dagda (who is one god out of hundreds--an important one, but not the god of Ireland) and the various peoples of Ireland to maintain peace between each other. It would take an extreme stretch of the imagination to call this an oath by the Irish gods to the Irish people to serve them and no one else.

(**Note that this is an English translation, which is unfortunately the only access I have to Irish mythology. If anyone who can speak fluent Gaelic and wants to take a crack at it, here is the original Old Irish: http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/G800011E/index.html**)

Is this relevant to my earlier question?

Edited to add links from the original post.