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Many Jews are Circumcising male children.
Mazel Tov for them, what a joyous simcha! Join that covenant, kids!
64%
 64%  [ 18 ]
What a horrendous violation of basic human rights! How awful! That should be illegal.
35%
 35%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 28


Lumanny the Space Jew

Blessed Poster

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:00 pm


http://www.gaiaonline.com/forum/extended-discussion/religious-circumcision/t.49697007/
(My thread in ED:MR)

I fervently believe in it for Jewish Males.
I was religiously Circumcised as an infant and would do the same my son if I had one.
It's G-d's first commandment to the Jewish People.


http://www.milah.net/

Quote:
THE BRIT MILAH CEREMONY:
The baby is brought in to the room, carried by the kvatter and kvatterin, considered by many to be the godparents.

Two chairs are prepared for the Brit. The first is for the Sandek, the individual who holds the baby on their knees during the actual circumcision. The lap of the Sandek is considered analogous to the altar of the Temple itself. It is considered a great honour to be the Sandek because there is a Cabbalistic tradition that links the soul of the Sandek with the child. In this way, the Sandek is considered the spiritual mentor of the child. In many instances, one of the grandfathers serves as the Sandek.

The second chair is set aside for the spirit of Elijah the Prophet, the "Angel of the Covenant". According to Jewish tradition, Elijah comes to every circumcision to testify before the Almighty to the commitment of the Jewish people to this great mitzvah throughout the generations. During the ceremony, just prior to the Brit itself, the baby is placed on the chair of Elijah, and the Mohel recites a special prayer asking for the spirit of Elijah to stand over him as he performs the Brit.

After the Mohel has performed the brit, a special blessing is recited upon a cup of wine, and the baby is given his Hebrew name. It is customary to serve refreshments or a meal after the brit, and this is considered a seudat mitzvah, part of the mitzvah. (Obviously all food served should be kosher.)

Ideally, a minyan should be present for a Brit, although this is not a pre-requisite.

Quote:
THE HISTORY OF BRIT MILAH:

"And G-d spoke to Abraham saying: ...This is my covenant which you shall keep between Me and you and thy seed after you -every male child among you shall be circumcised." (Gen. 17:12) For 3500 years, since the time of our forefather Abraham, the Jewish people have observed the ritual of circumcision as the fundamental sign of the covenant between G-d and Israel. Known in Hebrew as Brit Milah, "the Covenant of Circumcision", it is considered much more than a simple medical procedure. Brit Milah is considered the sign of a new-born child's entry into the Jewish tradition. For millennia, in every country where Jews have lived, they have always practiced this ritual, sometimes at great personal sacrifice. Perhaps more than any other ritual, Brit Milah is the ultimate affirmation of Jewish identity.



Quote:
PROCEDURE & ANESTHETIC:
The procedure involved in Brit Milah differs from medical circumcision in that heavy clamping or other interventional instruments are forbidden. The Mohel (Ritual Circumciser) uses a protective shield to ensure the utmost safety for the child, and then cleanses the incision through a uniquely Jewish practice called m'tzitzah.

The procedure is extremely quick, and relatively painless. According to most Rabbinic authorities, Jewish law does allow the use of a topical anaesthetic cream (EMLA®, or MAXELINE®). Some Mohalim (ritual circumcisers), including myself, use this anaesthetic cream routinely, with the approval of the family's personal physician or paediatrician.



http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/144122/jewish/Brit-Milah.htm


Quote:
Almost Painless
A common misconception is that the baby experiences a great deal of pain from circumcision. In truth, the performance of ritual circumcision is almost painless for the child. The way circumcision is practiced in most hospitals today includes using a Gamco clamp to crush the skin and seal the blood vessels, providing an almost bloodless circumcision but with great pain to the infant.

Ritual circumcision, on the other hand, is performed using a finely honed blade of surgical steel (like a scalpel) and a non-constricting guard which is placed over the foreskin. The procedure involves the removal of a small piece of skin – no flesh or muscle is cut at all!

The statement that circumcision is almost painless to the child is not made lightly. Indeed, an adult who once underwent circumcision while the local anesthetic had not taken effect (this occurs in very rare cases when the patient is immune to the anesthesia) experienced absolutely no pain from the circumcision itself. In fact, after the circumcision was completed, he inquired as to when the procedure would begin. It was only when the attending surgeon attempted to tie off the blood vessels and to suture the skin that the patient made it known in a most vocal manner that the anesthetic had not taken. Since a newborn does not require sutures, nor does he need blood vessels to be tied, he does not experience this pain. In addition, it should be noted that the nerves in a newborn of eight days are not fully developed.

On another occasion, a highly experienced mohel was supervising a student performing a circumcision. The mohel was holding the infant on his lap during the procedure (he was the sandek). The student performed a perfect circumcision, and as he was about to close the diaper after completing the dressing, the mohel noticed some blood on the diaper. Concerned that the dressing had not contained the bleeding, he reopened the diaper. The dressing was neatly in place and there was no bleeding.

Puzzled, he once again closed the diaper and was surprised to find additional blood on the outside. It was only at this point that the mohel discovered that the student had inadvertently cut the mohel’s finger during the procedure. The cut was all the way to the bone and yet the mohel had not felt a thing. If a deep wound to the bone did not cause any pain in an adult, certainly a superficial skin cut with the same instrument should not cause any pain in a newborn – especially since the nerves in a newborn are not fully developed.

If this true, why does the infant cry? A newborn will tend to cry as soon as his diaper is opened and he is uncovered. This may be due to a need to feel enclosed or merely because he is feeling cold. If one pays careful attention, one will see that the baby starts to cry before any procedure has actually been performed. Notice, also, that the infant stops crying shortly after the procedure has been completed, and then usually falls asleep. Any discomfort experienced by the infant afterwards is due to the dressing on the wound, which feels foreign to him.


Quote:
Postponing the Brit for Health Reasons

It is of utmost importance that the Brit be held on the eighth day after the child's birth. However, in the case of certain medical circumstances, when there is even a remote possibility that the child is not strong enough to undergo circumcision, the Torah requires that the Brit be postponed until he has recovered. If the baby is born premature, weak, or ill in any way, or if he is diagnosed with a health condition such as jaundice or an eye infection, the Brit is temporarily postponed. We wait for the child's full recovery before performing the circumcision.

In certain cases, we wait seven full days after his recovery before performing the Brit, as Maimonides states: "It is always possible to perform a Brit, whereas one cannot bring a Jewish soul back to life." Contact a competent rabbi or mohel to discuss any circumstances that may indicate a postponement.

In the case of twin boys, when one is healthy and can undergo a Brit while the other is not, we make each Brit separately; we do not wait to do them both at the same time.
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:11 pm


Thank you. You know where I stand on this chaver.

In Medias Res IV


Vasilius Konstantinos

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:24 pm


By all means follow the whole of the Law.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:43 pm


Beyond the fact that it is a tradition for our people, if I were to ever have children and if one of them was to be a boy I would get them circumcised for the health/cleanliness reason as well.

Jewpanesey

Quotable Conversationalist


DizzzyDayDreams

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:24 pm


Jewpanesey
Beyond the fact that it is a tradition for our people, if I were to ever have children and if one of them was to be a boy I would get them circumcised for the health/cleanliness reason as well.


I'd have to agree with that.
:3
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:15 pm


I think it's good for religious reasons and health reasons. Although, if I'd have a boy, I'd probably faint while they did it. I've been to one, and felt sick during the whole thing. I agree with it though. mrgreen

shadow22cat

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:37 pm


In Medias Res IV
Thank you. You know where I stand on this chaver.

me too heart
PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:32 pm


----I would NEVER get my son circumcised, I have no problem with parents circumcising their children, but what I have an issue with is the cleanliness comment. The American Academy of Pediatrics has not as of yet recommened routine circumcision for neonatal boys stating the evidence was not sufficient to determine the validity of supposed health benefits...
----To prevent what?
--Urinary tract infection: A doctor with a god complex ranted to my mother on why she should circumcise her children to prevent this, none of my brothers have ever gotten a urinary tract infection, mode of prevention? Good Hygenie.
--Cervic*l cancer: both An*l S*x and HPV can give you this too, good hygenie again can probably prevent this as no woman in my family (none of the guys are circumcised) have ever gotten this form of cancer.
--Cancer of the foresk*n: likewise none in my family have ever gotten this form of cancer.
--Balanitis: none of my brothers have ever gotten this, again good hygenie...
--Phimosis: I honestly got nothing for this, but not the whole circumcision process has to be done, just cut off the excess...
--Tight Foresk*n: Their are many other alternative methods someone can use later in life to remedy this, such as creams, and...
--STD Aquirization: Id like to call AIDs to the stand, yeah you still gonna get that if your not careful in intimacy, an alternative is safe s*x... xp
----Inshort their is no cleanliness issue, it's a covenant with God Almighty and his people, nothing more...

Mau Aita Dirac


xxEverBluexx

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:38 pm


As long as the doctor knows what he's doing (according to my mom the guy who handled my brother's was an idiot) I think it's great. Medically I've seen as many pros for it as cons, and religiously it's a good thing. :3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:47 am


I don't think it's right to do something like that to an infant. If he grows up and wants to do it, that is up to him. I don't really care if it is a religious practice. I believe in separation of church and state. If it is wrong it is wrong. I am tired of people hiding behind religion and doing horrible things in the name if God or whoever they worship. It is painful and unnecessary and I will not be subjecting my sons to that barbaric procedure.

Vengeful Elegance


Vengeful Elegance

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:51 am


Mau Aita Dirac
The American Academy of Pediatrics has not as of yet recommended routine circumcision for neonatal boys stating the evidence was not sufficient to determine the validity of supposed health benefits...


THANK YOU!

Mau Aita Dirac
Urinary tract infection: A doctor with a god complex ranted to my mother on why she should circumcise her children to prevent this, none of my brothers have ever gotten a urinary tract infection, mode of prevention? Good Hygiene.


Again, thank you. I mean seriously, are we chopping off body parts because they are inconvenient to clean now?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:52 am


Vengeful Elegance
I don't think it's right to do something like that to an infant. If he grows up and wants to do it, that is up to him. I don't really care if it is a religious practice. I believe in separation of church and state. If it is wrong it is wrong. I am tired of people hiding behind religion and doing horrible things in the name if God or whoever they worship. It is painful and unnecessary and I will not be subjecting my sons to that barbaric procedure.

WTF?
Separation of Church and State has nothing to do with this.

Lumanny the Space Jew

Blessed Poster


Lumanny the Space Jew

Blessed Poster

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:53 am


Vengeful Elegance
Mau Aita Dirac
The American Academy of Pediatrics has not as of yet recommended routine circumcision for neonatal boys stating the evidence was not sufficient to determine the validity of supposed health benefits...


THANK YOU!

Mau Aita Dirac
Urinary tract infection: A doctor with a god complex ranted to my mother on why she should circumcise her children to prevent this, none of my brothers have ever gotten a urinary tract infection, mode of prevention? Good Hygiene.


Again, thank you. I mean seriously, are we chopping off body parts because they are inconvenient to clean now?

Just read the freaking topic. JEWISH RELIGIOUS CIRCUMCISION. We are not talking about the hygiene stuff.
Jews were circumcising for thousands of years because G-d said so before the question of cleanliness came up.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:06 pm


----Please read my comment, I said I had no problem if you want to circumscise your sons... I won't do it, but I wont stop you; In fact I encourage you to stay true to your faith and your God, I was responding to shadow22cat's cleanliness comment... Again I don't care if yall do it or not... Sorry for the ranting sound to my last comment I was really tired when I wrote it sweatdrop ...
----Live Long and Prosper... 3nodding

Mau Aita Dirac


divineseraph

PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:56 pm


No. Just no.

Nobody has the right to mutilate another human being without consent. If you want to have your foreskin cut off, by all means go right ahead. But don't force it on your children. Would you force a tattoo of a star of David on your child? Would you allow a Christian to tattoo a crucifix on theirs?

It's not an issue of the religion being bad or the practice being bad. The part that is bad is forcing a permanent bodily change on a child.
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