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 Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:36 am
i read in one post here that one's gods and/or goddesses demanded worship as opposed to just being worshipped just because one can (i understand that the poster was speaking from a personal standpoint and i have already forgotten who posted it {sorry whoever you are, i'm very tired} but i had to go ahead and post this question before i forgot to).
now my question is not about whether or not the god/dess you want to worship wants you, my question is more about if i do not feel like anything is being demanded of me then does that mean that no diety wants me?
if the answer is yes, then that does not bother me, it is more of a curiosity thing. i figure if i feel that no one is making demands of me then i have just not found my religious calling, if i even have one.
my appologies if my wording is difficult to understand, i am not very cohearent at the moment. *passes out*
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:42 am
I didn't as much hear a call from my ancestral gods and goddesses as felt it in my blood. So far the only demands that Odin and Freya have made upon me are to become ordained as a member of the clergy and teach others the ways of the Aesir and Vanir.
As far as the Goddess of the Underworld is concerned... let's say that we have a certain agreement and leave it at that.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:49 am
For me, the demands started after I had already devoted myself, so I wouldn't say that if the demands aren't there, no deity is interested in you.
In my experiance (your's may vary) I approached gods respectfully on what I at least thought, were their terms. I found it a good way to find my pantheon.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:58 am
The ways in which people "hear" gods can be vastly different. Some people will see and hear with their eyes and ears, some will "see" and "hear" with their minds instead, others read symbols... Sometimes it takes time to make sense of the communication you may or may not be getting. Sometimes you have to find the right "frequency," I suppose. There's a distinct difference between how I experience my gods now and the complete silence I got trying to talk to the Wiccan deities as a teenager, but I've never literally seen and heard Them. The way I "see" Them is more like...I recently started watching Six Feet Under and the little "visions" characters have where they talk to other characters that are actually dead felt very close to home; it's not a matter of photons bouncing off molecules and passing through the lens of my eye, etc., but I do "see" Them sometimes.
There's a passage I vaguely remember seeing somewhere that the "imagination" is often discredited as false, when in fact one's imagination is the best tool for perceiving uncommon bits of reality...it feels kind of like that. The sensation is usually quite different when a god is "really there" and when it's just me making things up or replaying a previous experience in my head.
And the ways in which gods make themselves known to people can be vastly different. Some gods just don't really give demands, per se; others will just wait until you find them. If you're not getting any commands, it doesn't necessarily mean that no god wants you, just as if you are getting commands it doesn't necessarily mean they're coming from the deity you think they are or any distinct deity at all (yay thoughtforms). You might not be in the right mindset/age/location to hear it, you may be looking in another direction, or a god may be trying to get your attention in a way you're not expecting so you don't see it at first.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:15 am
whiporwill-o i read in one post here that one's gods and/or goddesses demanded worship as opposed to just being worshipped just because one can (i understand that the poster was speaking from a personal standpoint and i have already forgotten who posted it {sorry whoever you are, i'm very tired} but i had to go ahead and post this question before i forgot to). Likely Celeblin. Quote: now my question is not about whether or not the god/dess you want to worship wants you, my question is more about if i do not feel like anything is being demanded of me then does that mean that no diety wants me? No. Depending on the tradition, some of it may be a function of simply not having noticeable expectations or a similar relationship style as other gods and their people.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:29 am
TheDisreputableDog The ways in which people "hear" gods can be vastly different. Some people will see and hear with their eyes and ears, some will "see" and "hear" with their minds instead, others read symbols... Sometimes it takes time to make sense of the communication you may or may not be getting. Sometimes you have to find the right "frequency," I suppose. There's a distinct difference between how I experience my gods now and the complete silence I got trying to talk to the Wiccan deities as a teenager, but I've never literally seen and heard Them. The way I "see" Them is more like...I recently started watching Six Feet Under and the little "visions" characters have where they talk to other characters that are actually dead felt very close to home; it's not a matter of photons bouncing off molecules and passing through the lens of my eye, etc., but I do "see" Them sometimes. There's a passage I vaguely remember seeing somewhere that the "imagination" is often discredited as false, when in fact one's imagination is the best tool for perceiving uncommon bits of reality...it feels kind of like that. The sensation is usually quite different when a god is "really there" and when it's just me making things up or replaying a previous experience in my head. And the ways in which gods make themselves known to people can be vastly different. Some gods just don't really give demands, per se; others will just wait until you find them. If you're not getting any commands, it doesn't necessarily mean that no god wants you, just as if you are getting commands it doesn't necessarily mean they're coming from the deity you think they are or any distinct deity at all (yay thoughtforms). You might not be in the right mindset/age/location to hear it, you may be looking in another direction, or a god may be trying to get your attention in a way you're not expecting so you don't see it at first. Eloquently put ^-^ Looking back I can see that a lot that happened in my youth nudged (and sometimes shoved) me to where I am now. And the deity I was drawn to but didn't research cause I wanted to explore my european roots was the one I ended up with in adulthood (with many bumps and bruises from the trip). I always wondered how life would have been different had I followed the calls sooner lol, but wouldn't trade the experience (even the very bad parts) for anything. Ok tired ramble over... going to bed sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:15 am
I'm with Nuri - the demands didn't start until after there was regular contact.
Essentially, I don't feel as if the Gods grabbed me up and said "do this now!" so much as we began a give and take relationship. That relationship, for me at least, centers around the oath - "if you do this, I shall do this." The demand held on me now by my Gods is that I keep my word.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:20 pm
Kashaku-Tatsu And the deity I was drawn to but didn't research cause I wanted to explore my european roots was the one I ended up with in adulthood (with many bumps and bruises from the trip). That would fit with a self generated deity-shaped thoughtform, especially since your understanding matches not the individual as recorded, but the individual as it has been revised by the uneducated.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:30 pm
Would creating your own thoughtform deity work any differently than a real deity? How would you be able to tell the difference?
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:31 pm
whiporwill-o now my question is not about whether or not the god/dess you want to worship wants you, my question is more about if i do not feel like anything is being demanded of me then does that mean that no diety wants me? if the answer is yes, then that does not bother me, it is more of a curiosity thing. i figure if i feel that no one is making demands of me then i have just not found my religious calling, if i even have one. my appologies if my wording is difficult to understand, i am not very cohearent at the moment. *passes out* Throughout my life Bast has watched over me, with subtle hints thrown in that I was not ready to understand. That may just be it for you. It doesn't mean you're not worthy enough, nor am I saying you have a deity waiting for you. Perhaps it's just not the time. I had to go through a lot of thickheadedness and growing for me to be ready to accept what had been right in front of me all along.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:49 pm
kage no neko Would creating your own thoughtform deity work any differently than a real deity? Yep. Ultimately a Thoughtform is something you make. You imbue it's characteristics- for better or worse. Think of it like AI. It can mimic a behavior or execute a programmed response. But it isn't a Self with it's own opinions or even an awareness. It's an extension of the source of it's generation- which depending on the tradition is usually some combination of the individual who make it and their base material. Quote: How would you be able to tell the difference? Testing it usually. Cross referencing CPG and UPG, or in some cases, demonstrating certain behaviors and experiencing reverb.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:54 pm
Yeah it was probably me, but in context it was more me saying that I didn't simply worship my Gods because I got nice s**t out of it. My use of demand was more a reference to hardship. As such, I do not think the demand has to be there before you can worship, as with Nuri. My demands didn't start until initial contact had been made either, and a good thing too, because I still had to wrap my head around the whole monotheist to polytheist jump to begin with. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:59 pm
Celeblin Galadeneryn ...because I still had to wrap my head around the whole monotheist to polytheist jump to begin with. sweatdrop Heh, my problem when I first started getting into neopaganism was wrapping my head around ditheism. I was always thinking "how are all these Gods really just these two?" I mean, I got monotheism, and I got polytheism, and I was always more inclined to poly... it was just that ditheism seemed silly when they were positing that Athena and Artemis and Kuan Yin were all the same. stressed
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:01 pm
Celeblin Galadeneryn Yeah it was probably me, but in context it was more me saying that I didn't simply worship my Gods because I got nice s**t out of it. My use of demand was more a reference to hardship. As such, I do not think the demand has to be there before you can worship, as with Nuri. My demands didn't start until initial contact had been made either, and a good thing too, because I still had to wrap my head around the whole monotheist to polytheist jump to begin with. sweatdrop I'm such a pariah. I didn't go through half the s**t you folks did.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:11 pm
TeaDidikai Yep. Ultimately a Thoughtform is something you make. You imbue it's characteristics- for better or worse. Think of it like AI. It can mimic a behavior or execute a programmed response. But it isn't a Self with it's own opinions or even an awareness. It's an extension of the source of it's generation- which depending on the tradition is usually some combination of the individual who make it and their base material. So if you're looking for a deity, you could accidentally create a thoughtform? Would it still have the powers of a god?
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