Christo-Paganism

[TeaDidikai]

I jacked the thread title from ChristoPaganism: An Inclusive Path.

Most pagans I personally know offline scoff at the idea.
I was chatting with a Catholic Thelemite about it, and she got very defensive.

A friend of hers looked up at me and said "Sweetie, I don't think there is such a thing...", completely sincere in her belief that there is no way one can blend modern paganism and Christendom.

And yet...

Books like the one mentioned above, and Gnosis of the Cosmic Christ, and the numerous pagan-like Christians I know demonstrate the contrary.

Some of the reaction against this idea stems from the fact that most pagans were raised in a Christian household. There can be a lot of guilt when leaving a core element of your childhood faith behind. There can be sorrow and a sense of loss. There can also be anger. Some of that anger gets directed by fluffies at Christendom itself, and I can understand that. It's easier to feel mad than sad, and in the search for personal autonomy, Moral/Religious Autonomy is key. Developing Autonomy is complicated and emotionally taxing for lots of folks- and I don't think there is any doubt that a lot of teens run not so much to paganism, but away from Christendom and end up pagan by default.

That said- Christendom has it's Mystic Traditions, there are forms of Christian Magic, both in more of a Witchcraft style and the Ceremonial Style.

We have some amazing Christian Mystics, most of whom have some overlapping ideas, but may not be exactly alike.

So let's dig in shall we?

Christian Mystics, Witches, Magi, Seekers and Seerers, those of a Double Faith and a united ideal-
The First question I pose is this:

What was Yeshua?
Mortal? God? Enlightened Mortal? The Essence of Divine Love Incarnate?  

[Collowrath]

My knee jerk reaction? Yeshua was the mortal incarnation of YHVH.  

[CuAnnan]

Collowrath

My knee jerk reaction? Yeshua was the mortal incarnation of YHVH.

Mine is that he was the mortal incarnation of Ahura Mazda.  

[rmcdra]

Yeshua is God incarnate, though I don't know if he is YHVH or some other God. My personal experience and what I know of my religion matches him with YHVH but there are commands and actions attributed to him in the Old Testament that don't match with my experience.  

[TeaDidikai]

RMCDRA>> How does it match him with YHVH?  

[rmcdra]

TeaDidikai

RMCDRA>> How does it match him with YHVH?

Mainly his name meaning "YHVH rescues" and his description as being the Light of the World as I understand him to be. Since YHVH is described as being a God of Light and Goodness and Yeshua brought that Light and Goodness by his teachings and miracles and showing that Light to his disciples (ancient and modern) it leads me to believe that Yeshua is an avatar of YHVH. If he was of another god, I believe he would have renamed himself since he is not of YHVH.  

[Nines19]

Collowrath

My knee jerk reaction? Yeshua was the mortal incarnation of YHVH.

If I understand the wording right, pretty much this, IF we can say that YHWH (possibly on base of being YHWH?) can be both in His outside-of-time-space-existence and incarnate on earth at the same time. Personally I don't see any reason as to why we can't say that, but if anyone else has such reasons, I would be eager to listen.  

[Gho the Girl]

I don't think Jesus was God's son, or God incarnate.

I think Jesus is important and was special because he Understood.

In my view, the understanding of YHVH that the Jews know is colored by their earlier tribalism and conflict. To me, that is why the OT YHVH is so warlike, so strict, so destructive, becuase that was the world they lived in. Jesus saw that that isn't how it has to be. That as one reaches a less illusioned understanding, one's understanding of YHVH changes.  

[TeaDidikai]

rmcdra

Since YHVH is described as being a God of Light and Goodness

Where is this?

Quote:

If he was of another god, I believe he would have renamed himself since he is not of YHVH.

That's curious. I would argue it is the opposite for the same reason. See, to suggest that someone would change their name because of it's cultural meaning makes little sense if he is working from a position of Agape, especially when if he had wanted to change his name as a servant of YHVH to fulfill the prophecies he would likely have done so- adopting Emmanuel.
If the name is unimportant because of his message and position, he has no reason to change it for something as small as a social connotation.  

[rmcdra]

TeaDidikai

rmcdra

Since YHVH is described as being a God of Light and Goodness

Where is this?

Psalms 4:6-7 YLT

6Many are saying, `Who doth show us good?' Lift on us the light of Thy face, O Jehovah,
7Thou hast given joy in my heart, From the time their corn and their wine Have been multiplied.

This all that I can find off hand but I'm sure there is more.

Quote:

Quote:

If he was of another god, I believe he would have renamed himself since he is not of YHVH.

That's curious. I would argue it is the opposite for the same reason. See, to suggest that someone would change their name because of it's cultural meaning makes little sense if he is working from a position of Agape, especially when if he had wanted to change his name as a servant of YHVH to fulfill the prophecies he would likely have done so- adopting Emmanuel.
If the name is unimportant because of his message and position, he has no reason to change it for something as small as a social connotation.

Fair enough but like I've stated before I don't know if Yeshua was an incarnation of YHVH or some other god. All I can do is present why I have leanings for him being YHVH but I can equally think of why he's not YHVH incarnate but possibly some other god, such as the Monad talked about in Platonism. Though you do have me starting to question if my personal leanings are because of indoctrination.  

[rmcdra]

One thing I would like to clarify is are we talking about Yeshua the historical figure or Yeshua the mythic figure?  

[Fiddlers Green]

Okay, here we go...
We view Jeushua as the recent incarnation of Anhur.
That is why our mystics, watching for signs that Anhur writ in the night sky to show us the way in the darkness came from Persia to attend him.

We know his teachings of love and kindness to be the words of the creative/compassionate/warm/light half of the cosmos creating pair. We offered him shelter and attended his wisdom during his long years in the East. Our "testimony" of him, regards that time.

We react with either bemused humour, or vicious outrage, that Shem and his lot have laid claim to him. Especially as his message is so contradictory to what Shem has told his followers in the past. Oh, and he really didn't have the traits that Shem's messiah was supposed to. I am wiling and able to post my One of These Faiths is not Like the Other Ones rant if anyone wants. Some may find that it takes something of a dim view of Shem and his git. Well, it does. Ask at your own risk.

The simplification of it looks like this:
Judaism: Law based religion that endorses killing (under specific circumstances... demands under some) and meta-genetics.
Christianity: Faith based religion that encourages love, forgiveness, and universal access.
Islam: Law based religion that endorses killing (under specific circumstances... demands under some) and has very strict conversion rules.  

[TeaDidikai]

rmcdra

One thing I would like to clarify is are we talking about Yeshua the historical figure or Yeshua the mythic figure?

I plan to discuss both. For now, I'm not restricting it.  

[Doc Dillamond]

i think its oxymoronic and insulting  

[Nines19]

gemherbal

i think its oxymoronic and insulting

What is, insulting to who, and why?