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 Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:15 pm
should we realy trust 1/7 of our economy to a goverment that screws up the buget for cash for clunkers? and just think of your grandparents. to those who dont belive that the old will get the short end of the stick several of obamas healthcare advisers were quoted saying that "the very old and the very young should get low priority care" and that it would be more benificial to society to put less priority to the old and realy young. this isint sparta this is the U.S. everyone should have the same opertunity to good health care. have goverment run would expand the number of patients without expanding the number of doctors thus creating a shortage and rationing of care wich is when they would the the old people under the bus.
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:56 pm
You haven't been in an E.R. recently, have you? It's full of people who use it like a regular doctor and more than a few who skip out on paying. I'm not saying socialized medicine is the answer, but it's more of an answer than what you gave.
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:33 pm
Kaim Arounet You haven't been in an E.R. recently, have you? It's full of people who use it like a regular doctor and more than a few who skip out on paying. I'm not saying socialized medicine is the answer, but it's more of an answer than what you gave. im not saying stick to status quo i agree that the status quo is bankrupting us. socialism is an answer albeit a horrible answer but it is an choice. or we could restrict emergency rooms for people with emergencies, we could put restrictions on malpractice lawsuites (malpractice insurance makes half your bill) we could stop paying for illegals, we could cut back on medicaid. no one of these is the answer but together could help tremdously. at least its better than just jacking up taxes and saying sorry to grandpa and grandma.
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:37 pm
....cutting back on medicaid? Seeing as how the largest use of Medicaid (and Medicare) is nursing home coverage for the aging baby boomers, it seems to me that cutting back on this program would be "throwing the old people under the bus."
Currently medicaid covers less than 40% of the poor in the US so it seems like expanding socialized coverage, even if they are not prioritized, is better than the current system
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:00 am
medicare is fine its for the old people but medicaid should come with more restrictions. but look how just those two alone are bankrupting us, how could it possibly be expanded to cover america without puting the debt to 19 trillion even thomas jefferson said that leaving a debt for posterity to pay is imoral
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:35 am
tis a bit of an exaggeration to say that Medicaid is bankrupting us.... That was definitely the War in Iraq. But there is quite a bit of inefficiency in the system...I believe one of the things the Obaminator ran on was saving money by eliminating inefficiency in Medicaid.
The reason its possible to expand the care is because it is not meant to be a program funded by deficit spending.
1. Presumably, with a reduction in military spending, and reparations to the current system, currently existing revenues will be freed up and re-budgeted to the system.
2. A bit of additional regulation over the prices of care, pharmaceuticals, and the malpractice insurance problem will mitigate costs.
3. obviously taxes can be increased to make up the gap. Before you go all "OMG taxes kill fairies and kittens!" Realize that the benefit drastically outweighs the harm.
First. with the decrease in the cost of health care to the consumer, they will need less money in their pocket. I would actually go so far as to say that the actual amount of disposable income might INCREASE as the extra amount you pay in taxes will pale in comparison to the savings in health care costs.
second. Poor people might go the doctor more.
There is a problem with poor people that refuse to see a doctor because it is too expensive. Only when (what otherwise would have been a perfectly treatable condition) gets serious, do they go to the emergency room where they cannot be denied treatment even if they have no money.
Also, socialized healthcare opens wide the door for preventative care, a cheap and effective way to stay healthy, that poor people do not often use as doctor visits cost over a 100 bucks per handshake.
take care of these problems and we have a healthier society. a healthier society is a more productive society. Fewer sick days taken, and higher productivity at work. More people able to manage chronic conditions so they can get out there, earn a wage, and pay their taxes.
I think it is VERY possible to expand the system.
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Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:54 pm
the fed prints our money like there is no tommorow, that devaluates our dollar. the only times in history cases such as ours happen always end in hyper inflation (just look at why the weimar republic was so devastated or zimbabwe) they all printed way too much money to pay for masive debts (wich make up most of our GDP)just today the treasury sec. asked to raise the debt ceiling further above the 12 trillion mark so we can borrow more and accumulate more debt. now in health reform its bin floated around in congress that it would cost in the range of One trillion, at this point in our nations history it is safe to assume that they have grossly underestimated the cost. now with a possible crippling inflation coupled with underfunding isint it entirly possible of of rationed care (more so then what already goes on)? even one of obamas czars said saving one teenager is equevolent to saving the life of fourteen 84 year old, another that said children around the age of two and under shouldent even be considerd human beings until they can think about the future. so obviously they wouldent put priority on the yougest or oldest even though everyone should be to recive whatever care they need.
now it is also possible that none of that could happen, it is possible that healthcare could be greater and cheaper. but like ron paul once said "what happens if my concerns turn out to unfounded...nothing. but what happens if my concerns are justified and ignored...nothing good"
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:39 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:58 pm
HAY GUIS RECESSION SUX0RS! I have been eating 0.37 Cent Burritos for the past month James628 should we realy trust 1/7 of our economy to a goverment that screws up the buget for cash for clunkers? Cash For Clunkers...The numbers look good, but the problem is the government printed money that it did not have. But, The whole thing was ridiculous, Think about it'd be like if I had a small shop and gave people money only if they would buy from me. Grant you I may get some extra money, but did I gain that much of a profit. Plus I think that ceasing up the engines of the old car is a waste! mr_zoot tis a bit of an exaggeration to say that Medicaid is bankrupting us.... Yeppers mr_zoot That was definitely the War in Iraq. How about Policing the World? Housing Bubble? Lending? There is a lot of causes for current recession. Raising Taxes during recession = Fail
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:47 am
if ignorant people seriously mess up a perfectly good public health plan because they fear the elderly care rationing and gvt-run health care hype......I may move to Canada. Those tools can stay and get raped by the capitalists... care rationing.....idiots...
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Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:22 pm
mr_zoot if ignorant people seriously mess up a perfectly good public health plan because they fear the elderly care rationing and gvt-run health care hype......I may move to Canada. Those tools can stay and get raped by the capitalists... care rationing.....idiots... I could be wrong but last I checked even n the blatenly liberal biased versions of college hisotry text books it shows capitalists as the reason for the industrial age, the info. age, and in cases like russia were capitalism was baisicly treated like heresy they reverted back to evryone being poor (but at least equal in their defence) except for the charismatic populists who led them into their new found joy of what amounts to state run slavery. sounds just like guilded age crap in a shiny new red package. befor you bash capitalism rember that the computer your on is a result of it.
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Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:36 am
James628 mr_zoot if ignorant people seriously mess up a perfectly good public health plan because they fear the elderly care rationing and gvt-run health care hype......I may move to Canada. Those tools can stay and get raped by the capitalists... care rationing.....idiots... I could be wrong but last I checked even n the blatenly liberal biased versions of college hisotry text books it shows capitalists as the reason for the industrial age, the info. age, and in cases like russia were capitalism was baisicly treated like heresy they reverted back to evryone being poor (but at least equal in their defence) except for the charismatic populists who led them into their new found joy of what amounts to state run slavery. sounds just like guilded age crap in a shiny new red package. befor you bash capitalism rember that the computer your on is a result of it. Actually the computer I type on is the result of a regulated free market. Things like anti-trust laws and Linux make it possible to spew my liberal nonsense to you over the intarwebz! You do, however, make a good point about the progress the free-market can do for industry... Though Japan did a bit better with a little government direction. Services, however, do not benefit from a free market. People NEED health care, people do not NEED TV's and computers. Its up to the capitalist to make a good enough TV and advertise well enough to get me to buy it. For health care, the capitalist need only wait until I get sick. The free market has made computers faster, smaller, cheaper, cooler....etc The free market has restricted access to health care. The free market has spawned HMO's. The free market has created preferred provider lists where Doctors RECIEVE A FREAKIN CHECK for denying care to people. The free market has created legal strategies where insurance companies will delay care they have contracted to provide until the patient DIES in order to save a few bucks. The best way to profit when making TV's is to make the best TV you can, as efficiently as you can. The best way to profit when providing a service is to cut costs.
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Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:57 pm
I can handle regulation to a degree, I like anti trust laws. Is there a desperate need of reform in how that market is is handled ofcoarse.
were I disagree is that I dont believe someone else fixing you health problems is a god givin right that the government must provide. dont misconstrew that as bashing doctors, they're good, but the idea that someone elses services to you is an unalianable right I cant buy. If that is the case it is to easy for me to take a care that I treated liked like crape to a repaire shop and deman the taxs payers pay for repair becuase that a right, were would it end
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Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:13 pm
who says its an unalienable right? It is just a natural and desirable thing that an informed public in a developed country would seek and therefore vote on. It is beneficial, so we should do it. The government, as the organizing entity behind our collective public power, is the organization that should oversee it.
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Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:37 pm
mr_zoot who says its an unalienable right? It is just a natural and desirable thing that an informed public in a developed country would seek and therefore vote on. It is beneficial, so we should do it. The government, as the organizing entity behind our collective public power, is the organization that should oversee it. yes we have a right for geoverment to stay out of our health care from the 9th and 10th amendments wich were made soecificly to keep the goverments power in check. there are clearly better ways to solve the cost of health care
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