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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:59 am
Now I have heard from many people that the deities of Wicca are not worshipped outside of Wicca. As I am not initiated, I have no idea whether I know these deities or not, so in my ignorance I bow to the word of those with greater wisdom in this area.
However, something's been bothering me. Well, niggling, more like. Wicca is just sixty years old. If these deities are not worshipped outside of Wicca, have they only been worshipped for sixty years?
I know most early Wiccans believed the Lord and Lady had been worshipped for millennia, and I suspect a number of Wiccans believe this still, and fair enough. At least with the early Wiccans they were going with the information available to them. But now we know that Wicca itself is young, and not old, are we still speculating that these deities were worshipped in antiquity, or do we think that this worship is new?
If the worship is old, how can we say that these gods are only worshipped within Wicca, if their worship predates Wicca? Obviously in this case the Lord and Lady would be content to be worshipped in other ways outside of Wiccan ritual*, as Wiccan ritual was Gardner's.
On the other hand, how can these deities have gone for so many centuries without making contact with humanity? It's up to them, of course, I merely wonder why they would wait. The British Isles had been inhabited for many centuries; what was so special about this time and this culture? And then, Gardner seemed quite convinced that they, and their worship, had existed before he came along.
*Note: of course simply worshipping these deities would not make one Wiccan, nor a priest of these deities.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:17 pm
If they are the deities that Gardner's witchcult worshiped, then it would depend on how far back the New Forrest Coven could trace their line (of which we really have no idea). Other than that I have no idea. It's an interesting question though, almost be worth posting on A&J to see what the response is.
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:42 pm
What of the idea that deities are born and die and can be killed?
What if they're just new ones that have recently been born?
A few years to reach deity maturity could be centuries, so they may have been around long before Gardner, but just hadn't contacted humanity at all before then.
Or are older deities and just took a vacation from watching over humans..
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:08 am
ncsweet If they are the deities that Gardner's witchcult worshiped, then it would depend on how far back the New Forrest Coven could trace their line (of which we really have no idea). Other than that I have no idea. It's an interesting question though, almost be worth posting on A&J to see what the response is. I am still not convinced that the New Forest coven actually existed. It may have done, but it may not have. *shrug* At any rate, that alone suggests that the gods of Wicca can be worshipped outside of Wicca, as the New Forest coven was not Wiccan. Of course, the coven and those who came before them still had gnosis of these deities while others didn't and apparently passed down this information via initiation.
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:00 am
Sanguina Cruenta I am still not convinced that the New Forest coven actually existed. It may have done, but it may not have. *shrug*
A big problem with this is that we have just about no way of knowing. We've got Gardner's word to go on, and no actual proof, unless England holds the answer.
For all we know, he made it up. And he very well could have.
Quote: At any rate, that alone suggests that the gods of Wicca can be worshipped outside of Wicca, as the New Forest coven was not Wiccan.
Did Gardner state that he got the Lord and Lady from the New Forest coven?
If they existed BEFORE Wicca was created, then it stands to reason that they can be worshipped outside Wicca. It makes no sense unless they made an oath with Gardner that only followers of his religion would be allowed to worship them.
Quote: Of course, the coven and those who came before them still had gnosis of these deities while others didn't and apparently passed down this information via initiation.
I really need to read these books, just out of intellectual curiosity. At least then I'll know what the hell I'm talking about to some degree within the context of Wicca.
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