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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:40 pm
For the benefit of you poor non-Kiwi's out there, a bit of background. Some dumb [expletive removed] is holding a referendum (and costing the nation 5 billion dollars in doing it) asking the question
"Should a smack as part of good parental correction, be a criminal offense in New Zealand?"
Now currently it's illegal to smack your child if they misbehave, and a good thing too IMO. When you're dealing with adults, it's unacceptable to resort to violence to solve a conflict. Why should it be acceptable to hit a child?
Surely there are better ways to get compliance from a child than hitting them.
What do you guys think z!CB?
P.S. I've never had kids, so my opinion isn't based on anything >.<;;
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:43 pm
I agree with you. Hitting anyone is wrong, regardless of their age or relation to you.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:44 pm
Little Miss Fortune I agree with you. Hitting anyone is wrong, regardless of their age or relation to you. *highfives*
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:28 pm
And thats why every new generation of kids is more stupid and more of a brat then the last.
Yes violence is wrong, but correcting your child with a spank or somethign like that, a stick or belt is good IMO. Aslong as you don't over do it.
Kids need someone to give them tough love. Kids don't understand if you just talk to them, they are not mature enough, they NEED dicipline.
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:56 pm
I disagree with smacking your child. However, I'm growing up in a household where my siblings and I understand we will get spanked or slapped if we say or do something wrong. I get spanked on my birthday, too. And since I've grown up thinking that's acceptable, i've spanked my brother and sister when they misbehave while I'm babysitting. When I have my own kids, I'll probably spank them too, just out of habit.
But excessive smacking is completely wrong. Like night said, sometimes you do need some force to get a point across that what the child did was wrong. But I think you should only resort to that if it's something completely unacceptable, and you've warned them a few times before.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:12 am
Interesting factoid - a child will be equally afraid of whatever the worst punishment is, no matter what it is. If the worst they deal with is a scolding, they'll fear it the same amount as if the worst they deal with is being beaten black and blue.
This'd tend to suggest that if you need to hit your kid you're doing something wrong.
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Nespin Fernagon Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:52 am
> Whether you use a mild punishment (like a scolding) or a harsher punishment, the child will feel cognitive dissonance regardless; with a severe punishment, there will be external justification in which the kid won't participate in the behavior because... kid is going to get beat. This doesn't stop the kid from doing whatever it is that's unacceptable outside of the guardian's watchful eye. But when there is insufficient punishment, and the kid refrains from doing so, the kid has to find another way to justify the reason they are withholding from said behavior . tdlr; Less severe punishment>Less external justification>greater the need for internal justification Generally speaking at least > In regards to the consequences, Bandura's social learning theory (especially in regards to the Bobo doll experiment), pretty much implies that if you hit your kid, your kid will learn that violence in turn is an acceptable way to deal with something. As they say, even if they won't always listen to the elders, they are pretty good at copying what they do. So, if you were wondering why it is that children that are hit are more likely to hit their kids later on...
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:08 am
Hitting is acceptable. Just when it doesn't go overboard. Punishment is far too light nowadays. People do bad s**t because they don't fear the punishment. People do stupid s**t because they know the medical system can make it all go away. Take away negative consequence and people go wild. Which.... shouldn't be allowed.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:40 am
There's a fine line between discipline and abuse, and I take that line from a rant my brother wrote when he was still on Gaia. The rant basically describes what I believe as well.; Shae's brother sans username First problem with the world? The current and next generation of teenagers. Seriously, the level of respectability and general intelligence of teenagers as of late has been on a rapid and steady decline. The hay-day of Generation X is quite frankly a group of alter boys compared to how bad things have gotten with the youth. Now, granted, I'm only 21[Shae edit; He's 25 now].. but even I have to take a step back and go: "What the ********?" Since the demise of physical discipline, or rather discipline in general, teenagers in particular are worse than ever. Every one of these prepubescent and adolescent ******** needs a serious slap upside the head for the atrocities they get away with. As was pointed out to me in a conversation last night, there are no consequences left anymore. Those who slack off and stagger behind the hard working and intellectual minds (Scant few that there are.) of the generation still manage to slip through the cracks of the education and employment systems with very little reprimand. It's a horrifying thought when we consider that these are the people who will be running the planet after us. We think the world is in a state of decay now? This will be a drop in the bucket if the pattern of degradation continues. Parents, listen.. there's a fine line between abuse and discipline and you desperately need to find the safe side of it and walk it. Kids are going to get in trouble, it's inevitable. But how often and severe the trouble they get into will depend on whether or not they understand that their actions have consequences. There are three basic ways to discipline a child. And I say child because the sooner you teach 'em, the better off they'll be. These methods are as follows: A verbal reprimand should be given for minor things, things that will become common sense later in their lives. Deprivation or revoking of privileges should be utilized for moderate things, this includes grounding, setting curfews, taking away internet/television/other electronics, or the harshest form; to bed without dinner. And finally, physical reprimands should only be given in instances where the child has done something incredibly stupid or dangerous. Things like playing with matches, beating up a sibling or other child, vandalism or other defamation. (Just so we're clear, by physical reprimand I mean a smack on the bottom or a twap on the wrists/top of the hand, not all out hauling off and pummeling your child.) If problems still persist as after a child becomes a teenager. Use harsher deprivation techniques, and possibly even involve authorities or use scare tactics. Think all this is too harsh? I don't. I think kids running around and shooting up schools, getting into drugs, committing thefts and serious vandalism and generally being ******** more than justifies these methods.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:34 am
I agree with Shae's brother and would also like to point out that some kids don't respond to verbal warnings or taking their stuff away. My youngest step sis who is bipolar is one of those and believe it or not but the only thing she responds to is physical punishment (like spanking or washing her mouth out with soap). She isn't the only kid out there like that. We must take into consideration what works best with the kid. Surprisingly I was staunchly against corporeal punishment until my mom and I moved in with her partner and her kids (I have never been spanked and when my youngest step sis was mouthing off and her grandmother asked me to get soap it didn't click what she was going to do with it). After leaving the nest and working at a toy store, some kids clearly need strict boundaries and a good spanking because talking doesn't work. Our society has been going down hill and has become lack luster. I think a large part of it is a lack of discipline. Nothing good comes from permissive parenting.
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Nespin Fernagon Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:23 am
Vajapocalypse I agree with Shae's brother and would also like to point out that some kids don't respond to verbal warnings or taking their stuff away. My youngest step sis who is bipolar is one of those and believe it or not but the only thing she responds to is physical punishment (like spanking or washing her mouth out with soap). She isn't the only kid out there like that. We must take into consideration what works best with the kid. Surprisingly I was staunchly against corporeal punishment until my mom and I moved in with her partner and her kids (I have never been spanked and when my youngest step sis was mouthing off and her grandmother asked me to get soap it didn't click what she was going to do with it). After leaving the nest and working at a toy store, some kids clearly need strict boundaries and a good spanking because talking doesn't work. Our society has been going down hill and has become lack luster. I think a large part of it is a lack of discipline. Nothing good comes from permissive parenting. I'll counter that by pointing out that I've yet to meet a kid where physical discipline has any positive long term effect if they were already the sort to ignore the non-physical sort. I will admit that it generates short term fear and makes them think violence is a-okay though.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:39 am
Nespin Fernagon Vajapocalypse I agree with Shae's brother and would also like to point out that some kids don't respond to verbal warnings or taking their stuff away. My youngest step sis who is bipolar is one of those and believe it or not but the only thing she responds to is physical punishment (like spanking or washing her mouth out with soap). She isn't the only kid out there like that. We must take into consideration what works best with the kid. Surprisingly I was staunchly against corporeal punishment until my mom and I moved in with her partner and her kids (I have never been spanked and when my youngest step sis was mouthing off and her grandmother asked me to get soap it didn't click what she was going to do with it). After leaving the nest and working at a toy store, some kids clearly need strict boundaries and a good spanking because talking doesn't work. Our society has been going down hill and has become lack luster. I think a large part of it is a lack of discipline. Nothing good comes from permissive parenting. I'll counter that by pointing out that I've yet to meet a kid where physical discipline has any positive long term effect if they were already the sort to ignore the non-physical sort. I will admit that it generates short term fear and makes them think violence is a-okay though. That's what I thought until coming in contact with my youngest step sister. Sometimes fear is a good thing (that's the only thing that has kept her from trying to kill me and no I'm not kidding or exaggerating). Also, kids will grow up fearing any type of punishment whether it be scolding or and slap to the bottom. It's just a matter of what is more effective when dealing with that type of kid. I disagree that it makes them think violence is aye okay unless you are just flat out beating them for no reason or taking it far like spanking out of anger and not as a lesson learned sort of thing.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:56 am
When I was little, my brothers and I used to get a drop of tabasco sauce on our tongues if we misbehaved. I only ever had it happen a couple of times, because I absolutely haaaaaaated it!
When I have kids, I'll probably just figure out something similar to punish them with. But I doubt that anything could make me resort to physically harming them.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:05 pm
A slap or some sort of physical struggle is an instinctive way to say something were done wrong. But there's no need to cause any injuries, leave any sort of physical marks or cause much pain. Neither is it a good idea to make it a habit to slap kids. People tend to have a difficult time to see a drifference between a weak slap and violence, specially when raised by being slapped regulary.
The most important thing to teach the kids would be the word "no", and not using your hand to stop people everytime. The slap or the struggle may be a last resort to teach them the word.
Remember: If your kids learn to hit people early, it'll be difficult to teach 'em to not to. Specially if you hit much yourself.
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Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:17 pm
Little Miss Fortune I agree with you. Hitting anyone is wrong, regardless of their age or relation to you. Agreed. And if they think it's right, then I believe they will need to get extra insurance for when I hit them back in self defense and knock them on their backside.
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