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 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:34 pm
Alright. I know several of us absolutely love Nathan. Here's what I'm wondering though. How in the world did the sisters take a gifted Rahl away from D'Hara? How could the sisters go into a place designed to weaken their power and take the gifted heir from a father who was no doubt a wizard?? I know they never mentioned who Nathan's father was, but you have to assume that he was a wizard and knew his son was gifted. He'd have never willingly given up his son to the sisters.
So what do you think happened?
I think this could be a great idea for a new short story like Debt of Bones.
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:39 pm
Well it probably happened before Alric caused it so that there would be a Wizard Rahl as a leader, and was a descendant of a close family member of Alric. Just a thought that came to me, that would explain Nathan.
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:02 pm
I don't think so, that would mean he was there during the first war between the Old World and the New World. That's when Alric created the bond. Any Rahls born before that wouldn't have the bond in them since it's passed down by blood. Only a gifted heir can have the bond, and there's always only one gifted heir. Nathan's gifted, so he was the heir at some point. He must have had a son with the gift to pass down the bloodline, then chose to work with Prelate Annelina in order to influence events for prophecy's sake. In fact, I believe he said as much in one of the books (though I can't recall which at the moment). He only played along with the prisoner thing to hide his role.
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:06 pm
And if you read my post I said DESCENDANT I didn't say anything else saying anything about him actually being there for the War, granted Nathan is 1000 years old.
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:00 pm
StateAlchemist Natsu Well it probably happened before Alric caused it so that there would be a Wizard Rahl as a leader, and was a descendant of a close family member of Alric. Just a thought that came to me, that would explain Nathan. I don't think so. Alric created the bond 3000 years before the books and Nathan is 1000 years old. I think possibly the sisters stole him when the family was away from the palace and made it to where the father though Nathan was killed in some way. The D'Harans wouldn't have been bonded to Nathan then, they would've been bonded to his father as Lord Rahl, so they could've slipped away with Nathan as a boy. EDIT: I think I see what you're saying though. Even though Nathan was gifted, it doesn't mean that he had to be the son of THE Lord Rahl at that time. He could've been the Lord Rahl's nephew for example. Still that creates a problem of how did the sisters take a gifted Rahl from a line of wizards that would've taught him?
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:05 pm
Yea, it never mentions who Nathan's parents are. BUt we know it was after Alric Rahl's time, and beforePanis Rahl's time. So this means it happened during peacetime, correct? Cause as far as we know, the line of Rahl was an honorable and noble family until Panis Rahl's corruption, which he passed to his son Darken.
So somewhere in the middle, Nathan Rahl was born. My only guess is that he might have run away as a child. The Sisters of the Light took him in and trained him. But he had visions (because he's a Prophet). So when they learned he was a Prophet (and you know how crazy the Sisters are about prophecy), they couldn't let him go. They actually had they're own Prophet! As so they kept him against his will for many many years.
Because the Palace of the prophets is as dedicated to prophecy as they are to helping young wizards, they just couldn't stand to let a Prophet go, lest he be unable to put his prophetic power to use, or be killed. Not to mention, the palace of the prophets was the only place where Nathan could live the longest, ensuring that his ability gets put to its maximum use (cause Prophets around Richard's time were also exceedingly rare.
This is the only conclusion I can come up with, but I think it could be fairly accurate.
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TastesLikeMaliciousIntent
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:11 am
Punch your lights out
Hit the pavement
That's what I call entertainmentQuote: I would have to agree with the person who said he went willingly to help influence events through prophesy. It seems to fit his character better (to me, anyways), and would explain why he stayed in the collar even though we know he could get out of it (as he did in the fourth book to go on influencing things). Not to mention the fact that he used his knowledge of prophecy to stop a boy from growing to be a tyrannical leader (mentioned in just about every book I've read so far--I'm on the fifth one right now--when he told his "special female visitor" about a prophesy and the surrounding town went into civil war). Causin' problems makes you famous
All the violence makes a statement
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:28 am
I don't know, I've been re-reading the the books and in Stone of Tears, you can see he clearly doesn't want to be there and constantly complains and insults Ann about how she has been keeping prisoner.
I agree the doing Prophet-like things is his nature, but his spirit yearns to be free and as for a very long time.
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First Wizard Zorander Crew
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TastesLikeMaliciousIntent
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Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:45 am
Punch your lights out
Hit the pavement
That's what I call entertainmentQuote: Yes, but Zedd also complains loudly and often when he is "held" prisoner, yet easily gets out of the collar. Perhaps he (Nathan) only complains to keep his true purpose to himself. After all, when asked about leaking the prophesy that caused civil war, he would claim to not know anything about it/who the girl was/etc. Causin' problems makes you famous
All the violence makes a statement
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 pm
I always thought that because he was a prophet (which is rare) nobody would know how to train him, so they gave him to the sisters so that he wouldn't die from his gift.
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:00 pm
Tekada I always thought that because he was a prophet (which is rare) nobody would know how to train him, so they gave him to the sisters so that he wouldn't die from his gift. they didnt give him to the sisters they came and took him
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:34 pm
Xander32 Tekada I always thought that because he was a prophet (which is rare) nobody would know how to train him, so they gave him to the sisters so that he wouldn't die from his gift. they didnt give him to the sisters they came and took him How?
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:50 am
That's actually a question I've wondered since I read that !
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:33 pm
Well here is my two cents.
We are never told when Nathan is taken by the sister of light. After having a very sitmulating conversation on the issue over Yahoo IM I'm pretty convinced that Nathan is taken prisoner after he is older and has already provided the house of rahl with its next heir.
Nathan is in the royal line because he is Richards Great great great....ect grandfather. also from our knowledge that the rahl family normally killed its self except from the royal line it was normally very small and simply consisted of Master rahl, retired father, and heir son rahl. Also seeing as there could not be another wizard son because all the rest of the child would have been prestinly ungifted, Nathan would have had to have provided a male heir for the house to continue. So it is very posible Nathan had already provided the male heir before being taken by the sisters. which rules out him being stolen as a child. As if that was true then the first prositute that the sisters brought Nathan would have been the mother to the heir of the house of rahl.
It is also hinted at in the book that nathan was not taken by the sisters until after he started screwing around with prophies which is what orginally attracted them to nathan. So he was probibly older and getting more control over his abilities.
Wizards did not need to be trained by the sisters which some people think, though being that you guys are here i assume you know that. It is actually better if they are trained by wizards, and so Nathan would have recieved his trainined from his father, just as Darken rahl got his from panis, and would never have traveled to see the sisters. So that rules out his running away as a child to seek help with his gift.
anyways if you see some holes please point them out i think i covered everything but if not let me know and i'll type it up. (truefully i'm just to lazy to read back over it and make sure i covered everything.)
Edit: just realized I forgot to anwser the original question.
I believe that the sisters of light were able to get Nathan because they were probibly supported by other people. Having the head of a household be Prophet completely free to do whatever he wanted was not a good idea. It was something which needed to be done in order to insure balance and peace in the world. So the sisters where no doubt helped by someone in getting him.
Or theory number two. Nathan being as crazy as he is sometimes played out to be might have willingly gone to the sisters because he knew hed be able to live practically forever. That is a very tempting offer and it would also have given him a chance to see how he could effected the prophies he gave, such as when he told that one prostitut that a lot of people were going to die, and then she told someone and they told people, and it ended up starting a war where 10's of thousands of people died. But nathan said the alternitive would have been millions.
so there are my two theories on the matter.
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:55 am
Here's the way I've come to see it.
For starters the house of Rahl has been spelled so that every Lord Rahl will come to have a gifted heir, regardless of the declining trend of the gifted bearing gifted offspring. Any gifted has the chance to bear a gifted offspring, which while becoming increasingly rare does still occur. The Lord Rahl at the time bore two gifted sons, one from the spell and one from his own gift, hence Nathan.
Historically Noble or Royal houses with multiple sons would often send one away so as not to cause a division in the family. Such a division often occurred in the late king or lord dying without choosing his heir, an ensuing break could spark a civil war in the kingdom and lead to it's own downfall. This is where the famous saying "a house divided cannot stand" originally came from.
Putting history with fiction would result in his father the Lord Rahl at the time sending off his second son to protect both the sons and his kingdom from potential disaster. This decision, though difficult made the Lord Rahl give up his son to the Sisters of the Light(Most likely come by his own command) to take Nathan across the barrier to be trained in his gift, and training the brother to become the next Lord Rahl himself.
And yes this is very simplified and boiled down, so if anything doesn't make sense let me know and I'll be sure to clarify.
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