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(2:15 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Torry, why are people so cruel?
(2:15 AM) T-rad: The world is a bad place.
(2:16 AM) T-rad: That's why.
(2:17 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Then is it really that bad to rid this world of Bad things? I mean, Not the things that are bad because "American Law" says so, But like, the Real Bad things, like greed and poverty.
(2:19 AM) T-rad: Ah, greed makes us human.
(2:19 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Hmm...
(2:20 AM) T-rad: Poverty isn't good, but it's a motivation to keep working instead of ******** off.
(2:20 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: True
(2:21 AM) T-rad: Not the best things, but they exist for reasons.
(2:21 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But, about greed, sometimes i wonder, about being human, I think some people have evolved from being like "normal" people, Maybe a change of DNA related to the brain.
(2:23 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: To both extents though, Perhaps a change in excessive greed, and Suppressed greed, For i have felt alot as of recent, the feeling of, well, To put it clearly, I feel like i have to ability to never be greedy again, and Work for what i want...
Have you ever felt like that?
(2:24 AM) T-rad: That you can never be greedy again?
By will, or other means?
(2:25 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: By will, Like, If i wanted something, i feel like i would actually, go and do work for someone to get it, hmm... i know that sounds normal, but it's the feeling like i could do Honest work To get Honest Pay...
(2:26 AM) T-rad: That's a good ethic?
(2:27 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Yeah, but, why would I, outta Nowhere, feel like that?
(2:27 AM) T-rad: Maturity?
(2:28 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: =/, Me being the usually being immature usually, Maturity would hit me like that? Is it Possible to be Mature and Immature at the same time?
(2:29 AM) T-rad: Mhm.
(2:30 AM) T-rad: Immaturity isn't necissarily linked to ethics.
(2:32 AM) T-rad: You can act like a total retard but still belive that honest work equals honest pay.
(2:33 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Rather than calling Honest work maturity, would it be called Purity?
(2:34 AM) T-rad: I don't think so.
(2:35 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: If one were pure, A factor of being so would be a days work, a days pay, right?
(2:36 AM) T-rad: No.
(2:36 AM) T-rad: Because you'd have to come to the realization that a+b=c.
Which is trial and error.
(2:36 AM) T-rad: Mistakes, experiences.
And if you were "pure", none of that would have happened.
(2:37 AM) T-rad: You would be as the word says, pure.
No mistakes.
No experience.
(2:37 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Then one has to be born pure?
(2:38 AM) T-rad: The "born pure" arguement has been going on since Martin Luther and the Protestant reformation...
(2:39 AM) T-rad: But even if you are "born pure," you'd have to stay pure untill the moment you decide a+b=c
But you'd never realize that, because you never had the experience to bring you to that conclusion.
(2:41 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Then why, Have i came up with this decision to myself, when so many others, who are supposivly 'More Mature' than me, be so...
(2:41 AM) T-rad: ?
(2:42 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: agh, i don't know how to type it without demeaning them...
Well, to put it in the least offensive manner, How can they be so stupid?
(2:44 AM) T-rad: Human nature.
(2:45 AM) T-rad: well, if you just explained the situation I could tell you.
(2:45 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Well, This has been happening for a while.
(2:47 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Usually during the day, i have had the thought, and the feeling as of the thought of "Hey! You know, i would Do some field work to get a good pair of pants" or something else around those lines
(2:49 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But they pop out in the middle of the night as well, but those are usually related to chivalry and how it has died...
(2:49 AM) T-rad: mh.
mhm.
(2:49 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: well, died in others.
(2:50 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Maybe it's just i beleive in the myth of True Communism...
Believe*
(2:53 AM) T-rad: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."
(2:54 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Yep
(2:55 AM) T-rad: Mhm, continue.
(2:56 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Well, somethimes i feel like that, and there are othertimes when i just feel like working, Being someones b***h, Doing what others don't want to do
(2:57 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: brb
(2:57 AM) T-rad: K.
(3:14 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Back
(3:14 AM) T-rad: Welcome back.
(3:17 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: thanks.
So yeah...
(3:18 AM) T-rad: You're willing to do the work no one else wants to do, so what?
(3:21 AM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: I don't know... Torry, to tell you the truth, i just wanted to tell someone, and for all it's worth, i'm glad i talk to you, because there is only a select group of people that would take it, and understand in the way you are.
(4:27 PM) T-rad: I have a thought for you.
(4:28 PM) T-rad: Regarding out discussion last night.
(4:35 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Ok
(4:36 PM) T-rad: What you're saying about not being greedy isn't what you're describing.
Being greedy is being selfish.
(4:37 PM) T-rad: I'm not saying your selfish.
But you're not, not selfish.
(4:37 PM) T-rad: Not all participants can view handwriting, so your messages will be sent as text
(4:37 PM) T-rad: You're selfless.
(4:38 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Oh?
(4:38 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Hm...
(4:38 PM) T-rad: Dictionary.com: –adjective having little or no concern for oneself, esp. with regard to fame, position, money, etc.
(4:39 PM) T-rad: I guess that is unselfish, but what I mean is it's not purity, it's selflessness.
(4:39 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Ok
(4:40 PM) T-rad: Yep.
(4:42 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Then would i be Selfish to say that I want people to selfless?
(4:42 PM) T-rad: Yep.
(4:43 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Even if it not accompanied by a zealous feeling??
(4:45 PM) T-rad: Yep.
(4:45 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: And an offtopic real quick, Crystal method put out a song with matisyahu, and The prodigy put ou t a new song as well, if You know who i am talking about
(4:46 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Wait, but what if i just modify the context and say it as this: My Dream is for people to be less selfish?
(4:47 PM) T-rad: It's selfish because you want other people to change and bend to your opinion for your benifit.
(4:47 PM) T-rad: It's not a bad thing, but it is what it is.
(4:49 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Ok, so In conclusion, being Selfish is not always a bad thing?
(4:49 PM) T-rad: Yep.
Well, not in a moral opinion.
(4:49 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Well, Morality is all in perception as well
(4:50 PM) T-rad: Like, a man who has lost his job wishes for another man to loose his job so he can support his wife, newborn child and sick daughter.
(4:51 PM) T-rad: Morally speaking, it's not wrong for the man to wish that.
He has important things that need to be taken care of.
(4:51 PM) T-rad: But it's extremely selfish.
(4:51 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But that is need, not greed, so that means it is justified?
(4:52 PM) T-rad: That's where morals come in.
They separate need from greed.
(4:52 PM) T-rad: Even though it's a very fine line.
VERY fine.
(4:54 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But then That Line would Vary though, dependent Upon the person, No?
(4:55 PM) T-rad: Dependant upon the situation.
(4:55 PM) T-rad: Anyone can say, "I want that man's car because I need a car."
(4:56 PM) T-rad: That's not necissarily need.
(4:56 PM) T-rad: And anyone can be in a situation with a desperate need to want someones car.
(4:58 PM) T-rad: If there is some written law of how the ways are supposed to be, that is hidden from humans and tells exactly why some is considered need and some is considered greed, I could be wrong.
(4:58 PM) T-rad: It's just looking at things completely from a different angle. If it's not the people, but the situations they're put in.
(4:59 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Then are need and greed are the same thing?
(4:59 PM) T-rad: Yep.
(4:59 PM) T-rad: The situation just gives it the "classification."
(5:02 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: My father just told me that need and greed are not the sane, a Need is something you could not go without
(5:03 PM) T-rad: You can be greedy for your needs.
(5:04 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: I disagree, when you have greed for a need, it no longer becomes a need
(5:04 PM) T-rad: No.
(5:04 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But it is not neccisarily bad though
(5:04 PM) T-rad: People fight over water, which they both need.
(5:04 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: A man can drink water cause he needs it,
(5:05 PM) T-rad: One man takes it all because he won.
(5:05 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But a man can also stockpile it for future needs
(5:05 PM) T-rad: Being greedy by keeping it all... exactly.
(5:05 PM) T-rad: He's being greedy by keeping it all at the moment, but keeping it for future use.
He still needs water.
(5:06 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: it would be greed, but a intelligent greed.
(5:06 PM) T-rad: Exactly.
Greed.
(5:06 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But who said he had to have it all?
(5:08 PM) T-rad: He did.
That's why he's greedy.
(5:08 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: For the sake of an argument, It would be greedy to take it all, but it what would it be just to keep some for his future use
(5:09 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Small reserves for his family and himself?
(5:09 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Not all, but a fraction.
(5:12 PM) T-rad: Where would the rest of it go?
(5:13 PM) T-rad: Again, it depends on the situation.
(5:13 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Let this situation have a
(5:14 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Well, from which is uknown how much there is, but people see it as plentiful
(5:14 PM) T-rad: No matter where the water ends up.
(5:14 PM) T-rad: No matter what happens to it after the man takes it because he's won.
(5:15 PM) T-rad: He was greedy in getting it to fufill his needs, no matter how selfless he was after.
(5:16 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: and this well is about to run out, But the man withdraws almost the last, a reserve which is the natural withdrawal agreed upon by everyone
(5:17 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Now say Another man draws water, and there is not enough for his family.
(5:17 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Now, is the first man Greedy for keeping his reserve, or the second man, for wanting the firsts man's water?
(5:18 PM) T-rad: They both are.
(5:19 PM) T-rad: No one man can say he is right because he wants something that will benefit him.
(5:19 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: But the Second man has the need as well
(5:19 PM) T-rad: And need is the same as greed.
(5:19 PM) trogdoer@yahoo.c: Then it Is completly settled that they are the one and the same?
(5:20 PM) T-rad: I'd think so.
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