Why do you care?

[Trite~Elegy]

Yes this is not much of an argument or debate but a question.
By the way, hey I'm new! -Acts all dorky- 4laugh
Okay Back on topic.

EDIT; since everybody seems to skip over what the hell I said I guess im going to have to spoon feed you all.My question is concerning the pro lifers mostly, and this question has always driven me nuts.
My basic question is; why do you care?< LOOK PEOPLE IT'S THE MAIN REAONS FOR THIS THREAD, its a question omg!) (Yes. Why do you care if someone on the other side of the country has an abortion? What is your emotional or physical attraction to every woman in the U.S. (or maybe just the baby/fetus* in her uterus)?

I'm assuming you don't know every woman in the U.S. (or the country in which you reside) due to thefact that that alone would be quite the strenuous task in just trying meet them all. Also PLEASE don't bring up the "But their taking a life!?"quote. No I do not want to hear that, I doubt you give two flips when your local shelter extinguishes the life of a dozen animals per week or when some homeless person dies of hypothermia only two blocks from your home. How about when an innocent convict is executed to an audience of some victim's family. < PROVE ME WRONG DONT INSULT ME! (Since I've found most pro lifers are pro capital death, though that just a generalization, do not take any offense) No this is not strictly a life saving thing. There MUST be something else. [okay I am looking for the reaons why you the individual are against abortion! the next few sentences are possiblities! I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE THIS WAY if there is a reason why you oppose abortion say it!]Is this some hidden form of sexism? Dose it just frustrated you that women can control their sexuality or the fact that they have one? Another thing is maybe since the pope has condemned abortion, is it suddenly every woman who even wished an abortion a sinner against your religion? = Are you using pregnancy as a punishment intended for the female for getting pregnant? *

For the pro choicers, what are the reasons you care that abortion is available? Is it just a almost a selfish act? = Do you find the only reason you want abortion illegal is in case you have an unintended pregnancy?

What are your answers? How biased are they? I mean come on almost everybody is biased in one way or another. rolleyes




* Baby/fetus; both terms are correct, though baby has a term of endearment, which woman who want an abortion or have had one don?t have toward the thing in their uterus.
* Pregnancy as punishment; if you are all "She had sex in the first place! She should then be responsible and have the child even if she dose not want it! It's her fault!" that is considered punishment in the form of pregnancy  

[Trite~Elegy]

karllikespies

Quote:

My basic question is; why do you care? Yes. Why do you care if someone on the other side of the country has an abortion? What is your emotional or physical attraction to every woman in the U.S. (or maybe just the baby/fetus* in her uterus)?

No I don't have a personal connection with most people who have an abortion, but I care because it is wrong and it shouldn't happen. Just because I'm not able to personally connect with each individual person that is harmed by abortion(or whatever else you may consider) doesn't mean that I want it to happen.

Okay there two points I want to discuss here. The first being the one were you are not connected to every person who has had or will have an abortion. There's this problem ya know with politics, conservative pro lifers who are trying to ban certain types on abortion, or just abortion itself along with doing everything in their power to keep women from attaining an abortion. The politicians themselves do not represent every single person.* let alone want to do what everyone wants - they want to do what they want to do. okay what I'm basically trying to say is that if you do not have a mental, physical or the view of every person how is it right to impose prejudices and or laws restricting a select person or group something they think right? eck this sounds like a bunch of rubbish I'll try an example. Imperialism: 1 : imperial government, authority, or system
2 : the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence. From past experiences we've found it doesn' t work all to well. Example; India. In the past India was a colony of the British Empire, though since the British failed to incorporate the Indian way of life into their ruling system of India, tensions grew between the British and Indians. That's kind of like what I am saying. That it's not to swell when someone you dont know or wish to know has some right to rule your life in one way or another. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't just let it slide if some radical group decided that something you are entitled to all the suddenly becomes something wrong and immoral based on the radical groups standards.
Even though it seems I have strayed from topic I really didn't all too much, just because you think something is wrong doesn't mean you should have precedence over someone else's views and or morals.

The second point I want to discuss.
Why have you come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong? Did you all the sudden one day randomly go "Oh abortions wrong!" that itself may be a rare case but none the less it could happen. Though I am thinking that the way you are raised, the way the people around you have brought you up with infusions of their opinions and morals have shaped your own in some way or another. Or maybe it something scientific that I have not yet ventured into that is the reason you came to the conclusion that abortion is wrong. Also just because you find something wrong, dose not necessarily make it wrong for every one else. Example with the Indians again. In the Hindu religion/Lifestyle* it is thought that animals posses the gods. That harming an animal will bring you misfortune. That is the reason many Hindus are strict vegetarians and you can see herds or cows meandering the crowded streets not being bugged by anyone. Though because they may find eating meat wrong, dose not necessarily make it universally wrong. See the point I'm getting at?

* in the united states it is more of a republic then a democracy ; Republic = 1) : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law. Democracy = democracy in which the power is exercised directly by the people rather than through representatives.
* The Hindu religion has nor formal church or founder it is more of a lifestyle

Quote:

I'm assuming you don't know every woman in the U.S. (or the country in which you reside) due to thefact that that alone would be quite the strenuous task in just trying meet them all. Also PLEASE don't bring up the "But their taking a life!?"quote. No I do not want to hear that, I doubt you give two ******** when your local shelter extinguishes the life of a dozen animals per week or when some homeless person dies of hypothermia only two blocks from your home. How about when an innocent convict is executed to an audience of some victim's family. (Since I've found most pro lifers are pro capital death, though that just a generalization, do not take any offense)

Are you saying just because I'm not able to personally connect with everyone that has a problem that I don't care about the problems in general? Following your logic I should have no problem with theft or murder, because as I'm not able to know or care specificaly about each individual case. Btw I'm against the death penalty.

Yes and no to your question. Why yes? Because normally people don't give a ******** what's happening outside of their little sphere they live in. unless it affects them personally in some way, most people don't care about anything else. You might care about certain problems but not all and not in great detail on some. Like the crisis in Somalia, unless that's one of your major concerns I doubt you really care how the current life is for many Somalians (sp?). Also no, because you do care for some in some way or another. You're against the death penalty? Good so am I, though I said what I said in generalized speaking and said no offense so I hope you didn't take any.

Quote:

No this is not strictly a life saving thing. There MUST be something else. Is this some hidden form of sexism? Dose it just frustrated you that women can control their sexuality or the fact that they have one? Another thing is maybe since the pope has condemned abortion, is it suddenly every woman who even wished an abortion a sinner against your religion? = Are you using pregnancy as a punishment intended for the female for getting pregnant? *

Do I care two flips about a woman's sexuality,no, and I don't think I ever will. I'm not a christian and I hate the new pope, but that doesn't mean that everything the church has to say isn't correct or logical. No pergnancy is not a punishment, but a consequence. In all cases except for rape, a woman chooses to have sex thus it is 100% her and her partner's responsiblity for putting the baby in that situation, not the child's. Its called RESPONSIBLITY.

I put down the religion and pope thing thinking it might stir up a reason why some people are against abortion. Since most people against abortion cite religion as the reason they are against abortion, but in this case it dose not apply to you.

I'm going to give you my opinion on responsibility and punishment. Say a woman has sex. She might or might not have used contraception but she still got pregnant. Knowing that she wouldn't be able to support or give the best life for the child she makes a responsible choice and aborts it. Is that not responsibility?
Each case is special, so no one answer is right. In one case having the child and taking care of it may be the responsible thing or in another case saving the kid from having a horrible poverty ridden life was the responsible decision. Forcing pregnancy for both cases only equals wrong.  

[Trite~Elegy]

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[Trite~Elegy]

Mcphee

Hm.

You're being very rude in a debate guild, dear.

It's in quite poor taste.

I WASNT TRYING TO BE RUDE AT ALL.

I HAD NO MEAN INTENTIONS WHEN I MADE MY FIRST POST NOR THE SECOND OR THIRD

do I need to underline and put it in a more bold color also? stare

 

[Trite~Elegy]

karllikespies

Quote:

The second point I want to discuss.
Why have you come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong? Did you all the sudden one day randomly go "Oh abortions wrong!" that itself may be a rare case but none the less it could happen. Though I am thinking that the way you are raised, the way the people around you have brought you up with infusions of their opinions and morals have shaped your own in some way or another. Or maybe it something scientific that I have not yet ventured into that is the reason you came to the conclusion that abortion is wrong. Also just because you find something wrong, dose not necessarily make it wrong for every one else. Example with the Indians again. In the Hindu religion/Lifestyle* it is thought that animals posses the gods. That harming an animal will bring you misfortune. That is the reason many Hindus are strict vegetarians and you can see herds or cows meandering the crowded streets not being bugged by anyone. Though because they may find eating meat wrong, dose not necessarily make it universally wrong. See the point I'm getting at?

How did I come to believe abortion was wrong, well it wasn't my pro-choice parents or my non-existant church life that led me to that belief, but rather a combination of actually looking into the issue and seeing what people had to say when they had first hand encounters with it. The fact is that the vast majority of women eventually grow to regret there abortions and that was a major point of evidence for me. The are many other things at my life, but that was the biggest. I don't believe in the personal morality vs. universal morality, things are either right or wrong, they can't be alright for some people to do them and bad for others.

Quote:

I put down the religion and pope thing thinking it might stir up a reason why some people are against abortion. Since most people against abortion cite religion as the reason they are against abortion, but in this case it dose not apply to you.

I'm going to give you my opinion on responsibility and punishment. Say a woman has sex. She might or might not have used contraception but she still got pregnant. Knowing that she wouldn't be able to support or give the best life for the child she makes a responsible choice and aborts it. Is that not responsibility?
Each case is special, so no one answer is right. In one case having the child and taking care of it may be the responsible thing or in another case saving the kid from having a horrible poverty ridden life was the responsible decision. Forcing pregnancy for both cases only equals wrong.

I would hardly think that aborting a child could be responsible. It would be similar to walking up to a homeless man and blowing his brains out, you could say," well it was better he was dead" but in reality you have no right to judge the value of somone else's life. Just because someone can't talk or speak up for themselves doesn't devalue their existance.

true. But a baby/fetus dose not no anything of the outside life while of the womb. They do not even have coherent thoughts. So I believe that preventing suffering is the more responsible thing to do. I mean we (most people) neuter and spay their pets (thought of as the responsible thing) knowing that if we can't care for every puppy/ kitten etc.. Their animals has, and since there is already an over population of pets (as well as humans) that the offspring of those animals would have a very difficult life - or one in which they are just euthanized because no one can take care of them. With the homeless man example; that is the reason I am against the death penalty. I mean who are we to play god and say who will live and who is to die (once they are an alive human being) [I do not see a baby/fetus in the womb as a 'alive human being']