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Context vs. Substance

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Gho the Girl

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:46 am


So in my gnostic gospel class we recently finished the Gospel of Thomas. For those of you who don't know, it's one of the gospels that was written before the Bible was compiled, and was one of the gospels that was not only rejected, but that was "stamped out" by the crafters of what became today's orthodoxy, and if you have read the Gospel of Thomas, it becomes very clear why. Leaving that aside for the moment, a theme from the gospel that I feel is relevant to me and can/should be relevant to all christians is the theme of substance vs. context. That it is not so much what we do, what we say, what rites we observe, what prayers we count off, but it is the connection/relation to God and the Kingdom of Heaven that matters most.

How do you all feel about context vs. substance? Can they build together? Can one distract from the other? Is one more important than the other? What does context provide that substance cannot, and vice versa?

Feel free to leave any thoughts on the matter here.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:42 am


Gho the Girl
So in my gnostic gospel class we recently finished the Gospel of Thomas. For those of you who don't know, it's one of the gospels that was written before the Bible was compiled, and was one of the gospels that was not only rejected, but that was "stamped out" by the crafters of what became today's orthodoxy, and if you have read the Gospel of Thomas, it becomes very clear why. Leaving that aside for the moment, a theme from the gospel that I feel is relevant to me and can/should be relevant to all christians is the theme of substance vs. context. That it is not so much what we do, what we say, what rites we observe, what prayers we count off, but it is the connection/relation to God and the Kingdom of Heaven that matters most.

How do you all feel about context vs. substance? Can they build together? Can one distract from the other? Is one more important than the other? What does context provide that substance cannot, and vice versa?

Feel free to leave any thoughts on the matter here.

I'd have to say that both are equally important and necessary. Without the proper substance, the context can possibly be misconstrued or at worst completely lost and without the proper context there is no meaning behind the substance. One without the other is dangerous because with pure context, one can become lost in their own world and with pure substance one loses perspective behind why the substance is there to begin with.

It's easy to get lost in one and forget the other but that is why we are called to be ever vigilant and watchful lest we do end up getting lost in one.

Context provides the means to understand the substance and perform right actions when the right actions are not clearly presented; and substance provides the actions that builds and reinforces the proper context.

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chessiejo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:58 pm


for me context means two things.

first, we put the writing into its historical and social place; when and where was it written, under what circumstances, for what audience?

then, we look at a statement as part of the larger written context within which it appears.

this really helps tone down things like "wives obey your husbands" which appears in Ephesians, since right next to it is an injunction directed toward ALL spouses, "surrender to one another in love."
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:54 pm


Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.

Vasilius Konstantinos


Gho the Girl

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:00 am


Vasilius Konstantinos
Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.
What inconsistencies? Are you saying that none of the other gospels conflict or are inconsistent with eachother?

So the religious truth of a work is decided by how many use it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:11 am


Gho the Girl
Vasilius Konstantinos
Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.
What inconsistencies? Are you saying that none of the other gospels conflict or are inconsistent with eachother?

So the religious truth of a work is decided by how many use it?


In many cases yes it is the amount of archaeological evidences which relate to the amount of usage applied, also the fact that the Council at Nicea applied these texts among at least 318 Bishops who accepted this as canonical. Considering that there are only four copies ever discovered, and even the fragments do not match up to each other in their own copies, let alone three of the four are fragmented in the Greek and the only solid text we have in full is Coptic, this says alot about its validity as a true Gospel.

With the exception of the Gospel of John the other three are synoptic, correlating with each other. The Gospel of John coincides on the accounts taken from John as an apologetic discourse of Jesus Christ. Other than time applications and the number of witnesses of the Tomb, the Four Gospels in Sacred Scripture are very consistent.

Vasilius Konstantinos


Gho the Girl

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:55 pm


Vasilius Konstantinos
Gho the Girl
Vasilius Konstantinos
Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.
What inconsistencies? Are you saying that none of the other gospels conflict or are inconsistent with eachother?

So the religious truth of a work is decided by how many use it?


In many cases yes it is the amount of archaeological evidences which relate to the amount of usage applied, also the fact that the Council at Nicea applied these texts among at least 318 Bishops who accepted this as canonical. Considering that there are only four copies ever discovered, and even the fragments do not match up to each other in their own copies, let alone three of the four are fragmented in the Greek and the only solid text we have in full is Coptic, this says alot about its validity as a true Gospel.
No, what you have is an appeal to proliferation and to popularity.

What is popular and what is easy to understand is not necessarily valid. In the same way, we don't always elect the right President.
Quote:


With the exception of the Gospel of John the other three are synoptic, correlating with each other. The Gospel of John coincides on the accounts taken from John as an apologetic discourse of Jesus Christ. Other than time applications and the number of witnesses of the Tomb, the Four Gospels in Sacred Scripture are very consistent.
So if four liars come to you and tell the same story, they are telling the truth?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:59 pm


Vasilius Konstantinos
Gho the Girl
Vasilius Konstantinos
Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.
What inconsistencies? Are you saying that none of the other gospels conflict or are inconsistent with eachother?

So the religious truth of a work is decided by how many use it?


In many cases yes it is the amount of archaeological evidences which relate to the amount of usage applied, also the fact that the Council at Nicea applied these texts among at least 318 Bishops who accepted this as canonical. Considering that there are only four copies ever discovered, and even the fragments do not match up to each other in their own copies, let alone three of the four are fragmented in the Greek and the only solid text we have in full is Coptic, this says alot about its validity as a true Gospel.

With the exception of the Gospel of John the other three are synoptic, correlating with each other. The Gospel of John coincides on the accounts taken from John as an apologetic discourse of Jesus Christ. Other than time applications and the number of witnesses of the Tomb, the Four Gospels in Sacred Scripture are very consistent.
Though I do value the truth found in the canonical texts, the excluded documents and texts put much of Christianity into perspective for me. Though they may appear inconsistent with Sacred Scripture, they provide spiritual truth from a different perspective. I do respect the early Church Fathers for trying to organize the fledging religion but at the same time I feel that some perspectives were cut out purely for Church political reasons. Those perspectives could have (and for me it did) helped others to come to know of God and receive the Holy Spirit.

rmcdra
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Vasilius Konstantinos

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:14 pm


rmcdra
Vasilius Konstantinos
Gho the Girl
Vasilius Konstantinos
Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.
What inconsistencies? Are you saying that none of the other gospels conflict or are inconsistent with eachother?

So the religious truth of a work is decided by how many use it?


In many cases yes it is the amount of archaeological evidences which relate to the amount of usage applied, also the fact that the Council at Nicea applied these texts among at least 318 Bishops who accepted this as canonical. Considering that there are only four copies ever discovered, and even the fragments do not match up to each other in their own copies, let alone three of the four are fragmented in the Greek and the only solid text we have in full is Coptic, this says alot about its validity as a true Gospel.

With the exception of the Gospel of John the other three are synoptic, correlating with each other. The Gospel of John coincides on the accounts taken from John as an apologetic discourse of Jesus Christ. Other than time applications and the number of witnesses of the Tomb, the Four Gospels in Sacred Scripture are very consistent.
Though I do value the truth found in the canonical texts, the excluded documents and texts put much of Christianity into perspective for me. Though they may appear inconsistent with Sacred Scripture, they provide spiritual truth from a different perspective. I do respect the early Church Fathers for trying to organize the fledging religion but at the same time I feel that some perspectives were cut out purely for Church political reasons. Those perspectives could have (and for me it did) helped others to come to know of God and receive the Holy Spirit.


The issue is which God and which Holy Spirit? And if you value the Scriptures and the Truth of the Canonical texts would this also arise the questions for which Gnosticism, which holds that Jesus did not die on the Cross nor was , to some Gnostics, was never born and was only Spirit, to be a false teaching? This would not be considered the same Jesus Christ, not even Universally.

Please, let us endeavor to discuss these things, and in the manner of respect. I wish to learn from this as the few associates I have agree to simply disagree with me and will not answer any of my questions.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:07 pm


Vasilius Konstantinos
rmcdra
Though I do value the truth found in the canonical texts, the excluded documents and texts put much of Christianity into perspective for me. Though they may appear inconsistent with Sacred Scripture, they provide spiritual truth from a different perspective. I do respect the early Church Fathers for trying to organize the fledging religion but at the same time I feel that some perspectives were cut out purely for Church political reasons. Those perspectives could have (and for me it did) helped others to come to know of God and receive the Holy Spirit.


The issue is which God and which Holy Spirit? And if you value the Scriptures and the Truth of the Canonical texts would this also arise the questions for which Gnosticism, which holds that Jesus did not die on the Cross nor was , to some Gnostics, was never born and was only Spirit, to be a false teaching? This would not be considered the same Jesus Christ, not even Universally.

Please, let us endeavor to discuss these things, and in the manner of respect. I wish to learn from this as the few associates I have agree to simply disagree with me and will not answer any of my questions.
I will honestly say I do not know if YHWH and the God of the NT are the same deity or not. The only thing that I know that would suggest that they are is that I know that God is Light and Agape and both the OT and NT confirm this. The Gnostic scriptures support this. Now based on my experience, I know that God would not command me to stone someone for breaking one of the mitzots of the OT, would test my faith by asking me to sacrife my first born son, or destroy a city or people in his name. This is my personal evidence that supports my understanding that the God that Christ spoke of and YHWH are not the same being or at the very least that God is severely being misrepresented in the OT.

Now yes the Resurrection is very important. I know that Christ must die to be resurrected so that we may come to know the Father. I have a partial understanding of the Mystery of the Trinity and understand why it is part of Church teachings. It is the minimum needed to know of God and pretty accurately describes Him but it didn't help me when I first started my journey to come to know of God. As for the discrepancies about Christ and his nature, we are going to probably have to agree to disagree here, but though there may be historical inaccuracies and Christological disagreements between the Gospels and the Gnostic texts but I cannot deny that they are speaking of the same Christ and the same God just from different personal perspectives.

rmcdra
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Vasilius Konstantinos

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:57 pm


rmcdra
Vasilius Konstantinos
rmcdra
Though I do value the truth found in the canonical texts, the excluded documents and texts put much of Christianity into perspective for me. Though they may appear inconsistent with Sacred Scripture, they provide spiritual truth from a different perspective. I do respect the early Church Fathers for trying to organize the fledging religion but at the same time I feel that some perspectives were cut out purely for Church political reasons. Those perspectives could have (and for me it did) helped others to come to know of God and receive the Holy Spirit.


The issue is which God and which Holy Spirit? And if you value the Scriptures and the Truth of the Canonical texts would this also arise the questions for which Gnosticism, which holds that Jesus did not die on the Cross nor was , to some Gnostics, was never born and was only Spirit, to be a false teaching? This would not be considered the same Jesus Christ, not even Universally.

Please, let us endeavor to discuss these things, and in the manner of respect. I wish to learn from this as the few associates I have agree to simply disagree with me and will not answer any of my questions.
I will honestly say I do not know if YHWH and the God of the NT are the same deity or not. The only thing that I know that would suggest that they are is that I know that God is Light and Agape and both the OT and NT confirm this. The Gnostic scriptures support this. Now based on my experience, I know that God would not command me to stone someone for breaking one of the mitzots of the OT, would test my faith by asking me to sacrife my first born son, or destroy a city or people in his name. This is my personal evidence that supports my understanding that the God that Christ spoke of and YHWH are not the same being or at the very least that God is severely being misrepresented in the OT.

Now yes the Resurrection is very important. I know that Christ must die to be resurrected so that we may come to know the Father. I have a partial understanding of the Mystery of the Trinity and understand why it is part of Church teachings. It is the minimum needed to know of God and pretty accurately describes Him but it didn't help me when I first started my journey to come to know of God. As for the discrepancies about Christ and his nature, we are going to probably have to agree to disagree here, but though there may be historical inaccuracies and Christological disagreements between the Gospels and the Gnostic texts but I cannot deny that they are speaking of the same Christ and the same God just from different personal perspectives.


The word "mercy" is found more often in the OT more than it is found in the NT.

THe Resurrection is necessary because without it we have no fiath, as He is the One who bridged the gap of death so that we may have eternal life. Many have asked if He died for our sins, which yes He did but how did He? Because of His death, and conquering it made it possible for us to live eternally.

But Christ is 100% human. He knew all sin and was tempted by all sin, so says the Early Church Fathers.
Yet Christ is 100% divine. He knew what must be done and was able to tend to the needs of this world as well as showing us His glory as God. Thus said Sacred Scripture, prophesy and the Early Church Fathers.

So how He be both? This is the mystery of the Church that is simply accepted. Kyrie Eleison!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:02 am


Vasilius Konstantinos
Gho the Girl
Vasilius Konstantinos
Hermeneutics expresses that we find meaning by following what the History, Context and Genre are of each text in question.

We must know the history of what the text consists of.
We must know what context the text is written in, i.e. poetic, law, history or parable/story?
We must know what genre this was written for as in who it was meant to be read by or how it was meant to be read and sometimes for whom it was written to.

The Gospel of Thomas was written, from what can be cited, for the Alexandrians. It is also believed to have been written probably around 140 ce. It contains mostly non-canonical words of Jesus to His Disciples some of which are incompatible with the other Gospels which is why it was rejected as Canonical. Its inconsistencies, as well as a lack of manuscripts and usage in the Early Church shows that it was not accepted as a true religious text as seen by the evidence of hundreds to thousands of copies made of the basic canon of the New testament texts.
What inconsistencies? Are you saying that none of the other gospels conflict or are inconsistent with eachother?

So the religious truth of a work is decided by how many use it?


In many cases yes it is the amount of archaeological evidences which relate to the amount of usage applied, also the fact that the Council at Nicea applied these texts among at least 318 Bishops who accepted this as canonical. Considering that there are only four copies ever discovered, and even the fragments do not match up to each other in their own copies, let alone three of the four are fragmented in the Greek and the only solid text we have in full is Coptic, this says alot about its validity as a true Gospel.

With the exception of the Gospel of John the other three are synoptic, correlating with each other. The Gospel of John coincides on the accounts taken from John as an apologetic discourse of Jesus Christ. Other than time applications and the number of witnesses of the Tomb, the Four Gospels in Sacred Scripture are very consistent.
There are equal arguments that the Gospel of Thomas was written as early as 50 AD. those that cite extreme ends of the dating spectrum do so because it is expedient to their belief system.

Just a tiny bit of research is needed to show that the Christians of the early second century used different scriptures from the Christians at the end of that same century!

We learn about some of the types of changes made in the Christian texts because, ironically, they are clearly enumerated by the very people responsible for preserving them.

For example Rufinus (fourth century) says of the earlier Christian texts he is copying: Wherever, therefore, we have found in his [in this case Origen's] books anything contrary to that which was piously established by him about the Trinity in other places, either we have omitted it as corrupt and interpolated, or edited it according to that pattern that we often find asserted by himself. If, however, speaking to the trained and learned, he writes obscurely because he desires to briefly pass over something, we, to make the passage plainer, have added those things that we have read on the same subject openly in his other books….All who shall copy or read this…shall neither add anything to this writing, nor remove anything, nor insert anything, nor change anything.

In this Rufinus simultaneously and almost hypocritically pleads that others not do to him what he has done to them.

Clement of Rome is generally seen as the earliest of the Christian authors after the New Testament. Clement quotes from many books of the Old Testament (Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, 1 Samuel, 2 I Chronicles, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Malachi), and the New Testament books Matthew, Mark, Luke, Romans, 1 Corinthians, Hebrews, and 1 Peter. But Clement also quotes from the apocryphal books of the Wisdom of Solomon and Judith. Furthermore, Clement quotes from other scriptural passages, passages that are not known from any writings. I will list these in roughly the order they might have been found in our current Bibles if they contained them. For example, Clement quotes Moses as saying: "I am smoke from a vessel," a quotation that is not found in any known biblical or apocryphal work. Clement further cites a passage from Psalms 28:5 "Thou shalt raise me up and I shall acknowledge thee." This reading of the Psalm, however, is not taken from any extant manuscript.

Clement quotes the following passage as scripture, although its source is currently unknown:

Wretched are the double-minded, who doubt in their soul, who say: This we have heard against our fathers and behold, we have grown old and none of them have happened even to us. O fools, compare yourselves to a tree-take the vine-first it sheds the leaf, then the bud comes, then the leaf, then the blossom, and after that the sour grape, then comes forth the ripened grape.

The homily known as 2 Clement also contains variations in quotations of the scriptures. Consider the following passage, which comes from a gospel but is not found in any of the gospels known to us:

Ye shall be as sheep in the midst of wolves. And Peter answering, said to him What if the wolves should scatter the sheep? Jesus saith to Peter: The sheep shall not fear the wolves after they kill them; ye also shall not fear those who shall kill you and cannot do anything against you, but ye shall fear him who hath power after your death to cast soul and body into the hell of fire.

The sentiments are generally found in gospels but not as they are here. 2 Clement attributes the following saying to Jesus also:

"If ye are gathered to me in my bosom and do not my commandments, I shall cast you out and shall say to you: Depart from me, workers of iniquity; I know not whence ye are."

Of course, this passage looks like it came from the Sermon on the Mount, but if the passage is from Matthew, it is a different form of Matthew than what we now have.

The scriptures found in the new testament evolved through two centuries;

Look what happens when you take the clumsy passage from second Peter and remove the obvious interpolations, note how smoothly it flows:

(12) Having your behavior honest among the Gentiles, that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. (15) For so is the will of God, that with well-doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men; (16) As free, and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. (19) For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. (20) For what glory is it if, when ye are buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? But if, when ye do well and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God"

This is entirely consistent with the clementine recognitions: "But He is soon found by those who diligently seek Him through love of the truth, and whose souls are not taken possession of by wickedness. For He is present with those who desire Him in the innocence of their spirits, who bear patiently, and draw sighs from the bottom of their hearts through love of the truth"."

We can say with certainty, though, that Origen -- a man who was known to many as the greatest Bible scholar in the history of the church, unfailingly quoted scripture as he received it. We can also say with certainty that Origen's scriptures were different than what we have as witnessed by his Commentary on John: "None of these testimonies, however, sets forth distinctly the Savior's exalted birth; but when the words are addressed to Him, 'Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten Thee', this is spoken to Him by God", Origen is commenting on, and quoting a verse in the Gospel of John that is no longer there!

I found mildly offensive your assertion of our beliefs; But I will blame your source. Who ever told you that we Gnostics don't believe in the crucifixion is an out an out liar! The Gnostic church has been publicly and openly attacked from the Papacy for nearly two millenia; On alternate years the various popes have either declared us to be wiped out, or public enemy number one!

The Gospel of Philip states: "Do not despise the lamb, for without it, it is not possible to see the king. No one will be able to go in to the king if he is naked. "

The treatise on the Resurrection states:Then, indeed, as the Apostle said, "We suffered with him, and we arose with him, and we went to heaven with him". Now if we are manifest in this world wearing him, we are that one`s beams, and we are embraced by him until our setting, that is to say, our death in this life. We are drawn to heaven by him, like beams by the sun, not being restrained by anything. This is the spiritual resurrection which swallows up the psychic in the same way as the fleshly"

As to the assertion that he was an unborn spirit, that is a Marcionite belief, not a Gnostic one.

Lastly, the Gospel of John; the earliest known usage of John is among Gnostic circles. These include the Naassene Fragment quoted by Hippolytus Ref. 5.7.2-9 (c. 120-140), the Valentinian texts cited in Clement of Alexandria's Excerpta ex Theodotou (c. 140-160), a Valentinian Exposition to the Prologue of the Gospel of John quoted in Irenaeus' Adv. Haer. 1.8.5-6 (c. 140-160), and the commentary of Heracleon on John (c. 150-180, quoted in Origen's own commentary).

If you want to know what Gnostics believe, please feel free to ask.

Soulgazer the Gnostic


elizabethtomboy

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:42 pm


Well this is a difficult one. I mean, at my church camp we learned that Science goes together with the Bible. The concept they were getting at is that Science gives prof of the Bible's knowledge. What I took of what they were saying is that sciencentists found things and figured out what they were and what they did in life. This matches into the Bible, to give us details of a event. But I am not so sure. Yes there is prof all around us that the Bible is true, but God gave us the Bible and said that that is all we need. We don't need to be exploring the earth for answers or for prof, God is here, and he has been as always. The only thing we need to do is show God that we believe. What I believe most sciencentists are doing in the world is trying to find a explanation of why us humans and animals are here, because they don't want to believe what is right in front of him. So, things like the Big Bang Theroy happen because someone somewhere decied they didn't believe that there is a God. So, this is a difficult one. It depends where you are in this do you believe in the Big Bang Theroy and that sciencetists, who make that stuff up, are right? Or do you believe that God is real and should be glorified in all things we do? You decide!
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