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 Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:12 pm
Associated Press 22 foreign automakers to skip Tokyo Motor Show GM, BWM and 20 other foreign automakers to skip Tokyo Motor Show to save costs On Thursday May 21, 2009, 6:36 am EDT TOKYO (AP) -- More than 20 major foreign carmakers, including General Motors Corp. and Germany's BMW AG, will skip the Tokyo Motor Show later this year to save costs, the organizer said Thursday, underlining a deepening slump in the global auto industry. "It is unprecedented to see such a large number of carmakers not coming to the motor show. It's disappointing," said Kazusa Yoshino, a spokeswoman for the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, which sponsors the biennial auto event in October. Yoshino said 22 foreign carmakers would pass on the Tokyo Motor Show, leaving only four foreign makers -- including South Korea's Hyundai Motor Co., Italy's Ferrari and British race car maker Lotus -- at the event. All 22, which also include Ford Motor Co., Volkswagen AG, Porsche SE, had attended the previous Tokyo Motor Show in 2007. Japan's top three automakers -- Toyota Motor Corp., Nissan Motor Co., and Honda Motor Co. -- and several other domestic carmakers are scheduled to join the event, Yoshino said. While orders for hybrid vehicles by Toyota and Honda are strong, the outlook for Japan's automakers remains murky. Toyota, Nissan and Mazda have all tumbled into losses for the just-ended fiscal year, and all three project even more red ink in the year through March 2010. In a bid to revive battered auto demand, Japan's government has launched incentives to allow buyers of new cars to get a tax reduction ranging from 50 percent to 100 percent under government incentives, depending on the mileage and emissions of the model. The Japanese government has also proposed a rebate of about 250,000 yen ($2,640) for trading in a car 13 years old or older for an ecological vehicle -- although this plan has yet to win parliamentary approval. Full text here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/22-foreign-automakers-to-skip-apf-15313658.html/print;_ylt=AuuNwEvLYXACDw4CZUz78qXyKIkAServes them right! Total Japanese auto sale for 2008: 4,775,917 Total foreign car sales in Japan for 2008 219,231* (( 4.5% of total )) *25,329 = Japanese makes produced abroad for sale in Japan *45,522 = Volkswagon sales in Japan 2008 *37,002 = Mecedes Benz Sales in Japan 2008 *35,945 = BMW Sales in Japan 2008 *2,000 aprox. = All GM brands Say what you will, but 4.5 % is not a big number by any standard in an almost 5 Million car market. And given the expense of doing business in Japan and the import taxes I doubt any non-Japanese brands are making much money at all. No wonder everyone else is skipping the Tokyo Auto Show! Fair market indeed! rofl ******** Japan and its unfair market practices, and ******** anyone who isn't a Japanese citizen who buys their cars and hurts their own country's economy and well-being of fellow citizens.
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 12:52 pm
I think people should be free to buy whatever car they like. They shouldn't be bound by patriotic 'duties' or rubbish like that. A good car is a good car. Do whatever you like for your country, but just ask yourself, what has your country done for you? In my position I'm pretty neutral, A) because I'm not that patriotic to a country that puts me on the bottom of the employment list based on the colour of my skin, and what people of a similar colour of skin did nearly 20 years ago now; and B) because all cars in South Africa are pretty much foreign. At one stage we assembled Alfa Romeo's, and mine just happened to be made here. But we pretty much make everything here, but the car makers here syndicate thier prices, with the net result being, if you buy a car that comes off the line here, you could pay more for it than its sister comming of the same line that goes to a different country. All car makers here do that. So basically I'm going to go for bang for buck and build quality and appeal. Country of origin isn't really a factor for me. Unless you start takling about the Dart... sweatdrop GSM Dart  GSM Flamingo
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:08 am
I agree with Panda. If I see a good car, I'm not gonna pass it up because it isn't Domestic or not. What impact does it have on a citizen of America to buy an American car and not be satisfied with it just to help out rather than getting the car that they really wanted that just happened to be of foreign make? So people should just buy what they like, despite what people feed into their brains about certain cars being good or bad.
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:51 am
Quakes21 I agree with Panda. If I see a good car, I'm not gonna pass it up because it isn't Domestic or not. What impact does it have on a citizen of America to buy an American car and not be satisfied with it just to help out rather than getting the car that they really wanted that just happened to be of foreign make? So people should just buy what they like, despite what people feed into their brains about certain cars being good or bad. This is where our moral compasses differ. When I see that my society is in need of help, I make individual sacrifices for the good of the society. Japan has this mentality, which is why it's making a killing. Nowadays, Americans are so self-absorbed and narcissistic, that they don't know the meaning of sacrifice anymore. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few... or the one." Which makes it sad that there aren't many who can be as heroic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFyl4GxBzEw (It's a bit older than most of the folks, but the moral is still there. If any of you already knew the quote before seeing the video, major props.)
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:26 am
Actually Japan made a killing by slamming incoming imports with absolutely stupid tariffs, making it more economical for a Japanese person to buy a Japanese car(basically saying, you can either help out or you can pay extra for the car you really want) These people are NOT patriots, they want the most modern, the best, and the most "in" things around. American "culture" is quite a big thing there, just as Japanese culture is quite the "in" thing with some young Americans.
But anyhoo, it all comes down to what you want to do. If you think your purchase of a domestic car is being "patriotic," then good on ya. If you don't care either way, well going against the grain is what's needed for society to progress(and to create competition, which forces better product to be made locally, so its a BETTER thing)
Either way I don't really care. When it comes to road cars, I find what I can afford, slash that budget by two thirds, then go looking through the second hand ads for something that's halfway decent.
pirate
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 8:09 am
As I said before, unfair policies. I think it's ironic that "Toyota Town" is having a really hard time now. That's what the ******** get for relying on another country for their main source of income.
Anyway, I wanted an Impreza or a or GSX Eclipse for my daily... but I had to stick with GM for my personal sacrifice. Being in a Saturn is not "cool" at all over here on the coastal states. I'm sticking my mom in a Buick too.
I may have to just "go rogue" in a few months, though. I want a Miata.
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:44 am
How long have you be autocrossing the Saturn but? If its not all that long then there may be a few seconds still in it that you can eke out for free.
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:50 pm
Joey Crash But anyhoo, it all comes down to what you want to do. If you think your purchase of a domestic car is being "patriotic," then good on ya. If you don't care either way, well going against the grain is what's needed for society to progress(and to create competition, which forces better product to be made locally, so its a BETTER thing) And the way American Auto makers are beginning to turn out, as far as the vehicles and not the financial issues, is a prime example of that.
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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:19 pm
Quakes21 Joey Crash But anyhoo, it all comes down to what you want to do. If you think your purchase of a domestic car is being "patriotic," then good on ya. If you don't care either way, well going against the grain is what's needed for society to progress(and to create competition, which forces better product to be made locally, so its a BETTER thing) And the way American Auto makers are beginning to turn out, as far as the vehicles and not the financial issues, is a prime example of that. Actually I feel that this is the turning point, when the White House is going to bring the hammer down on them for efficiency(or, to drive volumetric efficiency through the roof) More efficiency means more money invested in engine research, which is probably something the Obama Administration is happy to do as it puts the US automakers at LEAST on par with their SEA counterparts when it comes to emissions. What I'm hoping for is for the pushrod to finally die(finger followers make more sense when you're counting every bit of energy produced which makes it to the wheels for every bit of fuel burned) and for the pneumatic valve technology to finally become widespread. The US IMO is a good place for this to start, because of how the industry is organized as opposed to the Jap firms.
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:17 am
Its a bit of a sticky area to be pointing fingers at Japan for thier unfair trade practices.
America has just as many, if not worse practices.
Take food production for instance.
America has an over supply of grain. They can easily feed thier country and still have an over supply. But what do they do with that grain?
They dump it on poorer countries, at a lower price than the going rate in that market, which pushes the people making it locally out of business.
Now while you might say feeding the world is a noble thing... this effect pushes people out of business and out of work and creates a dependence on American grain, and American food aid.
Thus deepening the poverty of that country because they can't sustain themselves, and all the money leaves the country for american grain.
I personally wouldn't put that kind of faith in American car manufactures, or any car manufacturer for that matter. Sure they might be American in origin, and American based. But if moving production to China to cut costs and increase profits becomes more attractive, then that company will move. The only thing keeping car companies where they are is goverment incentives to keep them there, and keep their people employed. These companies are slaves to what the share holders want, and what the shareholders want is a return on their investment. They want money.
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:27 am
Super Panda454 Its a bit of a sticky area to be pointing fingers at Japan for thier unfair trade practices. America has just as many, if not worse practices. Yer, hey we should find out about these it could be an interesting side project.
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:13 pm
If the US had worse/harsher trade practices... there wouldn't be so many different imported brands in such high numbers. I'm not an economist, and it's not my field of expertise, but I know that other governments (especially in Asia) try to manipulate and make their currency weaker, so that it's cheaper to have things produced there. Unfortunately, here in the US, everyone wants to get paid too much and work too little. Of course, there are also better work conditions and more concern for the safety and well-being of our workers (which cost money).
If American's weren't so cheap, and would realize that we ultimately do have to pay for our better conditions, rather than go buy "cheap" Asian manufactured products, we could raise our economy and standard of living even more. But Americans (and I hate to say most people in general) are too selfish and narcissistic to realize that. In the end, it'll be our downfall.
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:19 pm
Joey Crash What I'm hoping for is for the pushrod to finally die(finger followers make more sense when you're counting every bit of energy produced which makes it to the wheels for every bit of fuel burned) and for the pneumatic valve technology to finally become widespread. The US IMO is a good place for this to start, because of how the industry is organized as opposed to the Jap firms. Pushrods can be fuel efficient if need be. The Corvette and Manual GTOs made 25+ mpg. They're a smaller, lighter, package than DOHC as well. I found it hilarious that despite being twice the displacement, the 6.0L LS2 V8 was just a touch bigger than the 3.0 J30 V6 from my old Accord... and in manual form, got just as good gas mileage. I don't think they should die. I mean, that's like me saying that I think all L4 and rotary engines should die, because they sound like weed-whackers and aren't fast enough. I wonder how big Ford's new 5.0L is going to be in the 2011 Mustang. I'm so waiting for that car. Not sure if I'll get that, or the Fiesta as my daily beater. It'll be a wonderful day if Ford slaps the twin-turbos on the 5.0L too.
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:21 pm
Millefune Joey Crash What I'm hoping for is for the pushrod to finally die(finger followers make more sense when you're counting every bit of energy produced which makes it to the wheels for every bit of fuel burned) and for the pneumatic valve technology to finally become widespread. The US IMO is a good place for this to start, because of how the industry is organized as opposed to the Jap firms. Pushrods can be fuel efficient if need be. The Corvette and Manual GTOs made 25+ mpg. They're a smaller, lighter, package than DOHC as well. I found it hilarious that despite being twice the displacement, the 6.0L LS2 V8 was just a touch bigger than the 3.0 J30 V6 from my old Accord... and in manual form, got just as good gas mileage. I don't think they should die. I mean, that's like me saying that I think all L4 and rotary engines should die, because they sound like weed-whackers and aren't fast enough. I wonder how big Ford's new 5.0L is going to be in the 2011 Mustang. I'm so waiting for that car. Not sure if I'll get that, or the Fiesta as my daily beater. It'll be a wonderful day if Ford slaps the twin-turbos on the 5.0L too. IIRC the new production standards will be 30MPG by 2016, and to make way for more development in the future a form of variable valvetrain might need to be incorporated. I4's aren't necessarily slow m8; my car was built more than 4 years ago, and the quickest Holden running a V8 in the BP Midland TODAY laps 1:44 in the over 2-liter category(also fully stripped) I run 1:37 in 2-liter and under over 7sec time difference. The only one quicket at the latest round of the Midland is a Ford Van Diemen, which is either a kit car or an open wheeler. More experienced drivers expand that gap further, up to 10-11 seconds(same car, when everyone's broke we pick 1-2 cars and co-register/drive to split up the costs with each group getting at least 1 senior driver)
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:29 pm
Millefune As I said before, unfair policies. I think it's ironic that "Toyota Town" is having a really hard time now. That's what the ******** get for relying on another country for their main source of income. Anyway, I wanted an Impreza or a or GSX Eclipse for my daily... but I had to stick with GM for my personal sacrifice. Being in a Saturn is not "cool" at all over here on the coastal states. I'm sticking my mom in a Buick too. I may have to just "go rogue" in a few months, though. I want a Miata. Now I know I'll more than likely get burned for this, but if the big 3 made quality like cars from the very beginning, it wouldn't be considered a sacrifice. Its sad because for it to be a sacrifice to get a American automobile over a foreign one, that already says something about the build quality of a American car right there. Now say if GM, Ford, and Chrysler could make cars that stacked up to foreign performers such as the M3, A4, IS, or more affordable cars like the Evolution, Impreza, when it came to cabin tech, straight line performance, AND cornering, say between 5-15 years ago, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in now. I do have to give Ford and GM some credit though for picking up the slack recently, I just wish it never had to come to this because it makes people who want the overall best they can possibly get, look bad because they skip the native auto companies. Now I can see where you're coming from if someone just gets a car just because they see several other people have it and they jump on the band wagon, but if the person gets it because of their individual reasons, then I think its different and personally I couldn't be mad at them, but thats just me. I don't think getting a Mazda Miata would be a bad thing though, considering that Ford does have own stock in Mazda, so in one way or another, wouldn't that help Ford too?
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