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Voleur de Thym

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:39 pm


Il y avait l'exemple de ma vie;
Pendant que je me suis tenu au dessous dans l'obscurite,

...Qui fut tut..

I was raised Jewish, but have trouble remembering a few things. So when I met my friend Valg, a Nazi, we started coming up with some questions we wanted to ask. He doesn't hate Jews, no worries. ^_^;; We just want to know more about Judaism.
On to the questions-

- Why can't meat and dairy be eaten together? Does it matter if they're eaten separately, but still mix in the stomach?
- What is the purpose of circumcision, and why is it still practiced? It seems like a rather scary and dangerous operation to be carried on with out consent. I'd like to know why this is carried out.
- What is the general opinion of multiculturalism?
- Why is it that Israel is essentially an National Socialist nation, but the idea of other nations doing that is frowned upon?
- What is the purpose and history of yamakas?
- Would it be awkward for Nazi friend to join? as was said- he doesn't hate Jews, knows nothing of religion, ect ect. He just wants to learn. He feels awkward and strange to just send out a request, so I'm testing the waters for him in this last question.

...et qui ne fut rein...


d'autres sont montes recevoir le baiser et la gloire!
Il est fait bien. Et a deux doigts de ma tombe, je l'approuve.
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:20 am


le Voleur de Thym
Why can't meat and dairy be eaten together? Does it matter if they're eaten separately, but still mix in the stomach?


From Exodus (Sh'mot), chapter 23:
יט רֵאשִׁית, בִּכּוּרֵי אַדְמָתְךָ, תָּבִיא, בֵּית יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ; לֹא-תְבַשֵּׁל גְּדִי, בַּחֲלֵב אִמּוֹ.
19 The choicest first-fruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

From Exodus (SH'mot), chapter 34:
כו רֵאשִׁית, בִּכּוּרֵי אַדְמָתְךָ, תָּבִיא, בֵּית יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ; לֹא-תְבַשֵּׁל גְּדִי, בַּחֲלֵב אִמּוֹ.
26 The choicest first-fruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

From Deuteronomy (D'varim) chapter 14:
כא לֹא תֹאכְלוּ כָל-נְבֵלָה לַגֵּר אֲשֶׁר-בִּשְׁעָרֶיךָ תִּתְּנֶנָּה וַאֲכָלָהּ, אוֹ מָכֹר לְנָכְרִי--כִּי עַם קָדוֹשׁ אַתָּה, לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ; לֹא-תְבַשֵּׁל גְּדִי, בַּחֲלֵב אִמּוֹ.
21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself; thou mayest give it unto the stranger that is within thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto a foreigner; for thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

Reading before and after these passages tells us nothing in the way of context or reasoning. We are given a directive, and we aren't told why to follow it. There are many benefits to following this commandment, which I'm sure others will be pointing out, and yet no reasons. "We do it because Hashem ("The Name," that is, God) commands it," but we don't know why Hashem commands it.

However, anything that is repeated in the Torah is there to teach us a different lesson each time it is uttered, or to expound on the importance of the lesson, or to widen its scope. The first time, we learn the plain meaning: don't cook a baby goat in its own mother's milk. The second time, we learn that we shouldn't cook any kid ("young mammal" would be a better interpretation) in the milk of its mother-species. The third time, we learn that we shouldn't cook any meat or fowl in any dairy product, in order to safeguard against the first two things happening by accident. That's because once it's been killed, one can't say which kid was which; once the milk is in the milk pail, one can't say which animal was milked; and fowl so closely resembles meat in taste, texture, and appearance that one may easily become confused between one meat and another.

Observant Jews will go further, however, by not cooking meat in the same vessels that are used for cooking dairy, not serving them on the same dishes, not using the same utensils to cook or eat it, not eating meat until two hours after eating dairy, and not eating dairy till six hours after eating meat. And by "dairy" and "meat," I mean not just actual dairy products or actual meat products, but also, any NON-dairy or NON-meat product (called "parve") which has been cooked in a meat vessel or dairy vessel, too. This is called "building a fence around the Torah," so that we are very careful and stringent and don't eat meat-dairy combinations even in error.

le Voleur de Thym
What is the purpose of circumcision, and why is it still practiced? It seems like a rather scary and dangerous operation to be carried on with out consent. I'd like to know why this is carried out.


Genesis (B'reishit) 17:9-14
ט וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים אֶל-אַבְרָהָם, וְאַתָּה אֶת-בְּרִיתִי תִשְׁמֹר--אַתָּה וְזַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ, לְדֹרֹתָם.
י זֹאת בְּרִיתִי אֲשֶׁר תִּשְׁמְרוּ, בֵּינִי וּבֵינֵיכֶם, וּבֵין זַרְעֲךָ, אַחֲרֶיךָ: הִמּוֹל לָכֶם, כָּל-זָכָר.
יא וּנְמַלְתֶּם, אֵת בְּשַׂר עָרְלַתְכֶם; וְהָיָה לְאוֹת בְּרִית, בֵּינִי וּבֵינֵיכֶם.
יב וּבֶן-שְׁמֹנַת יָמִים, יִמּוֹל לָכֶם כָּל-זָכָר--לְדֹרֹתֵיכֶם: יְלִיד בָּיִת--וּמִקְנַת-כֶּסֶף מִכֹּל בֶּן-נֵכָר, אֲשֶׁר לֹא מִזַּרְעֲךָ הוּא.
יג הִמּוֹל יִמּוֹל יְלִיד בֵּיתְךָ, וּמִקְנַת כַּסְפֶּךָ; וְהָיְתָה בְרִיתִי בִּבְשַׂרְכֶם, לִבְרִית עוֹלָם.
יד וְעָרֵל זָכָר, אֲשֶׁר לֹא-יִמּוֹל אֶת-בְּשַׂר עָרְלָתוֹ--וְנִכְרְתָה הַנֶּפֶשׁ הַהִוא, מֵעַמֶּיהָ: אֶת-בְּרִיתִי, הֵפַר.
9 And God said unto Abraham: 'And as for thee, thou shalt keep My covenant, thou, and thy seed after thee throughout their generations.
10 This is My covenant, which ye shall keep, between Me and you and thy seed after thee: every male among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of a covenant betwixt Me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every male throughout your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any foreigner, that is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised; and My covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken My covenant.'


Leviticus 12:3
ג וּבַיּוֹם, הַשְּׁמִינִי, יִמּוֹל, בְּשַׂר עָרְלָתוֹ.
3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

This is another one of those "Hashem said it, so we do it" things that always frustrates those who strive for learning deeper meanings. Again, there are many benefits to circumcision, but these benefits are not the reason.

However, the reason is given this time: it is the sign of the pact made between Hashem and Avraham. It is an identifier that says "This boy, this man, is of the House of Israel." It tells the man that if he's going to be naked, he is going to have to think about that commitment made by his ancestors in every generation; and should he become naked for a purpose that is not in keeping with the commandments in the Torah, he will be reminded, "Don't do this thing. If you honor your ancestors, your parents, and your future generations, think again, because this thing you're about to do will dishonor them all, not just yourself."

le Voleur de Thym
What is the general opinion of multiculturalism?


There are two rabbis whom I greatly respect, and they each had something to say about it. One points to Exodus 25:1-7. I don't want to cut and paste the whole thing again, but just read it, and then look again at verse 5. Notice that it calls for sealskins to be used in building the Mishkan, the Tabernacle. Now, think. Where were the children of Yisrael? Were they by an ocean? No, they were in the middle of the desert! Where were they going to get sealskins, being in the middle of the desert? And even if they went to the sea, where would they be? In the warm sea, the Mediterranean Sea. Seals live in the cold oceans! In other words, they had no way of getting sealskins for themselves -- and yet Hashem commanded it.

This teaches us that the Israelites needed to trade for sealskin. That means they had to know who had sealskins; they had to be able to contact them, probably through runners and channels; they had to have good relationships with the nations of people who lived near the colder oceans, such that those people would trade with them; and they had to be on good terms with the people through whose lands they would travel, so that the traders wouldn't get mugged and have the sealskins stolen on their way back from trading. In other words, they had to be very good neighbors, so that no one would see any sense in attacking them, or denying them the ability to trade for what they needed. They couldn't handle a war or a trade embargo.

The other rabbi I respect so much points to the fact that Moses's wife was a Midianite. Our most brilliant, most pious, most just, most righteous religious leader of all time... married "outside." And yet, he didn't marry an outsider. He married someone who was not of the lineage of the House of Israel, but she was of the faith of Israel. She converted to this faith, and she married Moses. Our patriarch Yoseif married an Egyptian, in fact the daughter of Par'oh (Pharaoh). It is said by some that our ancestor Ya'akov (Jacob) had two wives from his own kinsmen, but his two consorts, Zilpah and Bilhah, were respectively Nordic (or at least, of Nordic descent, from traveling ancestors who came south to the area) and Nubian (that is, black). There are Jews in all areas of the world, of all races, of all nationalities. Jews are scattered among the nations like seeds scattered randomly in a field, and yet everywhere we go, we grow.

Our foods separate us by being kosher; our clothing may separate us by being more modest than most of our neighbors; our customs are different; and yet we don't live apart from the nations, but among them. We take their fashions and make them modest for our own use. We take their recipes and alter them so they can become kosher. We speak their languages (look, I'm speaking English right now!), we get jobs with non-Jewish companies, we exist and thrive, and we shine. And even, sad to say, we fall prey to the less positive aspects of the non-Jewish world; there are Jews in prison, and rightfully so, for things they've done. But yes, we are big on multiculturalism. We benefit by it greatly, and we have a duty to benefit others by it as well. It is our duty to be a light to the nations, and how could we do that if we kept ourselves separate from them?

le Voleur de Thym
Why is it that Israel is essentially an National Socialist nation, but the idea of other nations doing that is frowned upon?


I don't know enough about politics to be able to speak to this point.

le Voleur de Thym
What is the purpose and history of yamakas?


A yarmulkeh (Yiddish, coming from the Polish jarmulka, 'little cap') or kippah (Hebrew for 'dome') is one of many styles of head coverings that are worn by Jewish men as a sign of modesty before Hashem. It's not a religious law, but it is a custom with generations of keeping behind it so that it has attained almost the status of a law, that a Jewish man's head should be covered. It's a sign (like circumcision, but visible to far more people, one hopes) that the man is Jewish; it is his reminder that he is crowned as if royal (and the crown is actually a sign that even royalty has Someone above them) and should act with dignity and propriety; and it is his way of identifying other Jews in case he needs them for any reason, such as making a minyan (a prayer quorum of ten) for saying certain prayers which can't be said alone.

In the Middle East, where Judaism was born, covering one's head said two things. It said "I am a person of dignity," and it also said "I respect the one before whom I stand." Women and men both cover their heads in Judaism, albeit differently. A man wears his hat; a woman can wear a hat, cap, snood, scarf, or (in some branches of Judaism, such as that practiced in northern and eastern Europe) a wig. There are threads concerning modesty all over the Guild, especially under the Jewish Information subforum. Hunt them up. There's more information about head covering and hair covering to be found.

le Voleur de Thym
Would it be awkward for Nazi friend to join? as was said- he doesn't hate Jews, knows nothing of religion, ect ect. He just wants to learn. He feels awkward and strange to just send out a request, so I'm testing the waters for him in this last question.


It might be a little awkward, to be honest. It might even be a lot awkward, depending on how this person behaves. But if he sincerely wants to learn, rather than wanting to learn just enough to use against Jews later, he can send in his request -- and it really would need more of an explanation than "I'm a Nazi, but I want to learn" -- and the mods will look it over and have a conversation, and maybe contact him for more information. As a general guideline, telling us "Jews are moneygrubbers" will probably get him punted, but asking "Why is there this idea of Jews as moneygrubbers, and where did that come from?" might get him an actual, well-thought-out answer.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 pm


le Voleur de Thym
Why is it that Israel is essentially an National Socialist nation, but the idea of other nations doing that is frowned upon?

National Socialist is a term the National Socialist German Worker's Party (or, in layman's terms, the Nazis) invented in an attempt to turn as many people as possible to Nazism. It applies to patriots ("German"), the farmers and labourers ("Worker's"), the right-wingers ("National") and the left-wingers ("Socialist"). The phrase is nonsensical and can only be used to describe Nazis.

Israel is not National Socialist. Currently, Kadima are in majority in the Knesset, so we are centrist/centre-leftist.
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