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 Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:59 pm
Hey fellow Joo's...
People make alot of rediculous comments about the Jewish faith and Jews in general. What are some comments are you sick and tired of hearing?
I am fed up with people saying "Channuka is the Jewish Christmas". They are totally different celebrations and have nothing in common. Sure they fall around the same time but that's it!
Okay your turn.
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:46 pm
Well, it didn't used to be about the presents, but like with Christmas it's been commercialized.
It's supposed to be about the lights, about remembering. It seems like nobody gets that anymore. =\
I'm tired of hearing people say "But the Jews killed Jesus!"
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:00 am
I'm tired of people hating Israel. 'Nuff said.
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:55 am
oh em jyu I'm tired of people hating Israel. 'Nuff said. The current political state of Israel is not an inherent tenant of Judaism. Period. Your definition of "hate Israel" also seems to often cover frequent criticism or dissent. Likudniks'll get everything they bloody deserve from my end of the corner. I'm tired of people blindly loving Israel, and offering absolute unwavering support the nation does not deserve. I'm tired of pro-Israel and/or Likudnik Jews who play and/or abuse the religion card every single time the current state of Israel comes under criticism. Especially ones who then trivialize the history of Jewish peoples, especially the modern history, by dropping bombs like "hate" and "anti-Semite" left and right. To summarize: I'm tired of seeing Judaism trivialised and packaged by political entities.
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:04 am
Angsty Shem The current political state of Israel is not an inherent tenant of Judaism. Period. Your definition of "hate Israel" also seems to often cover frequent criticism or dissent. Likudniks'll get everything they bloody deserve from my end of the corner. I'm tired of people blindly loving Israel, and offering absolute unwavering support the nation does not deserve. I'm tired of pro-Israel and/or Likudnik Jews who play and/or abuse the religion card every single time the current state of Israel comes under criticism. Especially ones who then trivialize the history of Jewish peoples, especially the modern history, by dropping bombs like "hate" and "anti-Semite" left and right. To summarize: I'm tired of seeing Judaism trivialised and packaged by political entities. This may be the endless hours of studying for a geometry midterm talking, but it's kind of like the transitive property. Israel is a Jewish State. A Jewish state is, then, part of Jewishness. Hate Israel, hate a part of Jewishness. And I don't mean hate as in criticize Likudniks or Israel. I mean hate. H-A-T-E hate. If the worst anti-Israeli sentiments out there were harsh words and a few political quarrels, that would make me the happiest person in the world. When I say hate, I mean entire countries officially, publicly, and on the record stating that they wish for Israel's destruction. When I say hate, I mean six countries simultaneously attacknig Israel. When I say hate, I mean people blowing up innocent Israelis for no other reason than hate. May criticism be the worst thing that happens. We should only be so lucky!
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:09 am
oh em jyu Israel is a Jewish State. A Jewish state is, then, part of Jewishness. Hate Israel, hate a part of Jewishness. Rubbish. Absolute garbage. Israel's politicians can decree they're whatever state they want. They're not gods, nor are they the arbiters of "Jewishness." oh em jyu And I don't mean hate as in criticize Likudniks or Israel. I mean hate. H-A-T-E hate. If the worst anti-Israeli sentiments out there were harsh words and a few political quarrels, that would make me the happiest person in the world. When I say hate, I mean entire countries officially, publicly, and on the record stating that they wish for Israel's destruction. When I say hate, I mean six countries simultaneously attacknig Israel. When I say hate, I mean people blowing up innocent Israelis for no other reason than hate. I've seen you very much not mean that in other discussions, though. I'm not talking about the Muslim world. Yes, they hate Israel, very much. But I've seen you lament "Israel haters" outside of that very factual context. Israel could use much more than a few political quarrels, ie being held accountable and come down on for their weapons of mass destruction programs ( especially if they still refuse to publically acknowledge in the face of confirmed evidence), amongst other things. Jyuzilla May criticism be the worst thing that happens. We should only be so lucky! May they get as "best" or "worst" as they deserve. As I'd say of any country.
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:53 am
Angsty Shem Israel could use much more than a few political quarrels, ie being held accountable and come down on for their weapons of mass destruction programs ( especially if they still refuse to publically acknowledge in the face of confirmed evidence), amongst other things. When I was in Isreal, I saw a textile factory that had great security. If you stopped on the road outside their fence for five minutes they'd have a guard car out to visit you. They also had a weather balloon, or something similar, taking pictures of the surrounding area and keeping watch. If you were caught taking pictures, they'd confiscate the film. Not the best cover they could have thought of, is it? If they're going to hide what they're doing, at least make it subtle. =\
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 3:44 am
stare OK, finally we have a Jewish guild, where we can discuss (like every Jew loves to do) and argue minor things (well I hoped) like our favourite foods, the movies we love, the scriptures, and whatnot... But yet again, faced with more Israel bashing from someone who does not quite understand what Israel means to many Jews. gonk
I was ready to come to this forum to retreat from the Israel hatred, but no... we have people wrecking that! Everywhere I turn these days I get more and more angry. What is so wrong about loving Israel? Were you in Israel before the six day war? I have heard stories from my mother about what a great and free place it was, people would be out on the streets during the evening dancing (not afraid of anything). After that everything changed, people became serious again, afraid... Heavy security is important... Do you think Israelis will use nuclear weapons? That would mean that they too would be blown out of the picture, so even if they do keep them, they are not likely to EVER use them! stare
Have you seen Jews kiss the soil of Israel? Have you seen the tears in their eyes? Have you heard the beautiful patriotic songs? Just one example of so much love-- operation Moses...
'Palestinians' aren't even a people. I don't care about their education problems and such, why didn't/don't the rich nations like Saudi and Pakistan take them in? No they wouldn't dare, they can use these poor buggers as pawns in their agendas... stare
I'm sure the National socialist guild are all fighting for one cause and are all thinking much along the same lines, having a merry old time! stare
POWER TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, AND YOUR LOVE FOR THE COUNTRY... STUFF EVERYONE ELSE, AND DO IT YOUR WAY!!
ARRRRRGGGHHH!! And coming to a point, you know what I hate? Well I'm not sure yet, I'll just post when I'm not feeling so worked up. domokun
*These are my own thoughts, I'm speaking about how I feel...
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:31 am
Angsty Shem oh em jyu Israel is a Jewish State. A Jewish state is, then, part of Jewishness. Hate Israel, hate a part of Jewishness. Rubbish. Absolute garbage. Israel's politicians can decree they're whatever state they want. They're not gods, nor are they the arbiters of "Jewishness." Wait, are you disagreeing with the fact that Israel is a Jewish state? Quote: I've seen you very much not mean that in other discussions, though. I'm not talking about the Muslim world. Yes, they hate Israel, very much. But I've seen you lament "Israel haters" outside of that very factual context. Ah, but see, I didn't. Just now, up there, a few posts back, I said I'm sick of people hating Israel. Yes, I am a little sick of the people who critcize Israel and have pretty much condemned her to a title as bad as the Palestinians, but I'd much perfer that over the current pure hatred recieved from more than quite a few countries on this planet. And I don't like that, "Oh, yeah, well, it's the Muslim world," attitude that many share. Quote: Israel could use much more than a few political quarrels, ie being held accountable and come down on for their weapons of mass destruction programs ( especially if they still refuse to publically acknowledge in the face of confirmed evidence), amongst other things. She hasn't made threats to use them yet, she's an ally of the US... since we all know where they are and we'd all know if they were on the move or being brought out, what difference is a public statement going to make? Quote: May they get as "best" or "worst" as they deserve. As I'd say of any country. And may they be judged fairly in the eyes of everyone else! (See, everybody, it's exactly like my rabbi once said- You get two Jews, and you have three opinions- and sometimes you don't even need two Jews. Okay, well, he added the last part, someone much smarter came up with the first. heart )
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:23 am
oh em jyu This may be the endless hours of studying for a geometry midterm talking, but it's kind of like the transitive property. Israel is a Jewish State. A Jewish state is, then, part of Jewishness. Hate Israel, hate a part of Jewishness. Not quite , there's an undeniable connection between Judaism and Israel per purpose of Israel's exsitence , but it's not, as Shem pointed out 'an inherent tenant of Judaism'. It's a political and practical home for Jews , not a part of jewish studies , philosphy, and faith. I remeber reading two weeks ago , about a community of Yamanic Jews living in Yaman , who utterly hate Israel. Dosen't make them any less jewish .
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:46 am
liriako Not quite , there's an undeniable connection between Judaism and Israel per purpose of Israel's exsitence , but it's not, as Shem pointed out 'an inherent tenant of Judaism'. It's a political and practical home for Jews , not a part of jewish studies , philosphy, and faith. Thank you. I'm not even responding to Tokyo2040. I understand Israel just fine. And I'm not "bashing," nor are my feelings "hatred." Accusations toward me like hers are exactly the manner of garbage I'm sick of. Posts like hers completely affirm my observation that pro-Israel and/or Likudnik Jews will play the "hate" card on even the most unhateful, sympathizing people should they disagree with that nation-state. oh em jyu Wait, are you disagreeing with the fact that Israel is a Jewish state? Are you still standing by your claim that, regardless of what Israel's politicians claim it to be, hating Israel is inherently hating Judaism? oh em jyu since we all know where they are and we'd all know if they were on the move or being brought out, what difference is a public statement going to make? Oh, I don't know, how about not being deceptive? Y'know, the same sort of ambiguity that earned Iraq an invasion? oh em jyu (See, everybody, it's exactly like my rabbi once said- You get two Jews, and you have three opinions- and sometimes you don't even need two Jews. heart And guys, look. Rusu's first post said that this was about the Jewish faith; I'd not have brought up Israel save feeling compelled to make a response. If I really want to debate the current political state of Israel, I'll go to ED Politics. Perhaps Jyu thinks an Israel debate thread would be a good thing to have here, but if that's going to be, can we not turn Rusu's fun, very-light-hearted topic into a debate fest? Please? sweatdrop Edit, PS: Tokyo2040 POWER TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, AND YOUR LOVE FOR THE COUNTRY... STUFF EVERYONE ELSEI find this terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. I sincerely hope that's not your genuine attitude toward the rest of humankind. Such mindsets lead to the exact same manner of horrors which plagued Jews in the 20th century.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:07 pm
tokyo2040 'Palestinians' aren't even a people. I don't care about their education problems and such, why didn't/don't the rich nations like Saudi and Pakistan take them in? No they wouldn't dare, they can use these poor buggers as pawns in their agendas... stare They are a people. This kind of attitude is one of the reasons why there are still problems. Have you ever met a Palestinian? Or an Israeli Arab? Palestinians aren't the only ones that want a Palestine. And they aren't all terrorists or "bad guys". They have children, just like anybody else. And because of where they live, any money going to them from outside nations would be questioned by the Israeli government. If they want education, Israel needs to provide a program, or else they're always going to assume that any money going to the Palestinians is going to be used for suicide bombers. tokyo2040 POWER TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, AND YOUR LOVE FOR THE COUNTRY... STUFF EVERYONE ELSE, AND DO IT YOUR WAY!! You can't blindly follow someone, or allow a country to do as they please because you think they can do no wrong. It's irresponsible. It's happened before, you know, and look what happened. Criticism isn't always a bad thing. In fact, its almost necessary for a government. It helps keep people honest. This is the last I'm gonna post of this here. Like Shem said, it's not fair to Rusu that we highjacked her thread.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:48 pm
I see people failed to note the first bits and rushed in to accuse me of being some kind of monster!
Yes you were Israel bashing, don't tell a Jew they don't have the right to love Israel, it has spiritual connections to Judasiam. You were quick to pounce on that one Shem! But, does, "Jews killed Jesus" have anything to do with a tenant of Judaism? Rusu's post says: 'and Jews in general'. So Israel counts, as well as, 'Jews killed Jesus'. If you ignore that part in Rusu's post, then you should have said something about 'J killed J' too...
And let me ask you Amitzah, have you met any Israelis who have been attacked, or lost innocent loved ones? Funnily enough, I have been one week off from being blown to bits, and yet I would go back again and again. 3nodding
All you people do is blame the media (I love how people can turn it back on the media)! You have no idea how many people accuse Israel, so why can't the Jews who love it defend it? Do you know what it feels like to have almost everyone against you, that you are afraid to say anything remotely pro-Judaism (let alone pro-Israel)? And what was I thinking expecting that this place wouldn't also turn into a political battle ground... stressed
Because I don't care about "Palestinians", I am a "Likudnik monster"?! Well so be it then! Why don't the Saudis' and Pakistanis' care about their own people? Have a go at them for once! Anyways it isn't only the Muslim world who hates Israel, there are lots of non-Muslims who hate it too...
I admit I don't know any Palestinians, but I do have Muslim friends, in fact my friends are very diverse in culture/religion. My Muslim friend told me that she was engaged (a few years ago). And now that I'm not around, she has no one she is willing to talk about it with, because she trusts me and knows I will help her (not being egotistical, but this is why a lot of my friends come to me with their problems). So don't tell me I'm the kind of person who incites hate and violence and doesn't appreciate other peoples.
I just love it when people bring in the, "think of the children" argument! I do think of the children: I hope Palestinian schools will start abolishing the teaching of jihad and start teaching them something non-hateful (like how to think for themselves).
I never said "Palestinians" were terrorists or bad guys (most of them are just brainwashed to hate Jews/ Israel/ any free people really). Anyway, I sure feel like I'm the biggest terrorist because I heart Israel! rolleyes
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:31 pm
tokyo2040 And let me ask you Amitzah, have you met any Israelis who have been attacked, or lost innocent loved ones? Funnily enough, I have been one week off from being blown to bits, and yet I would go back again and again. 3nodding I told you, I don't want to argue in here anymore... but it looks like I'm gonna. Yes, I do know people who have lost someone. My friend Ofer, lost his mother when an Israeli embassy was bombed in Argentina. I know people in the Israeli army who have lost friends, and family, to terrorist attacks.  Just because I don't agree with what you are saying, doesn't mean I hate Israel. I love Isreal so much, that I question. I want the people healthy, happy, and whole. I want for there to be peace, so my friends will not have to live in fear. I'm selfish, I don't want a letter telling me that Carmi, one of the sweetest people I know, has died, or her husband who is in the army, or Noam who loves the outdoors so much... tokyo2040 Because I don't care about "Palestinians", I am a "Likudnik monster"?! Well so be it then! Why don't the Saudis' and Pakistanis' care about their own people? Have a go at them for once! Anyways it isn't only the Muslim world who hates Israel, there are lots of non-Muslims who hate it too... I didn't call you a monster, and I don't think you are one. I was trying to get you to look at it from a different point of view. tokyo2040 I admit I don't know any Palestinians, but I do have Muslim friends, in fact my friends are very diverse in culture/religion. My Muslim friend told me that she was engaged (a few years ago). And now that I'm not around, she has no one she is willing to talk about it with, because she trusts me and knows I will help her (not being egotistical, but this is why a lot of my friends come to me with their problems). So don't tell me I'm the kind of person who incites hate and violence and doesn't appreciate other peoples. I said that was the kind of attitude that allows for violence. You yourself said "Stuff them". In my opinion that's as good as saying "Go ahead and fight". I may have interpretted it wrong, but that was how I saw it. tokyo2040 I just love it when people bring in the, "think of the children" argument! I do think of the children: I hope Palestinian schools will start abolishing the teaching of jihad and start teaching them something non-hateful (like how to think for themselves). If Israel funded Palestinian schools, do you think they would allow them to teach the children to hate Israel? tokyo2040 I never said "Palestinians" were terrorists or bad guys (most of them are just brainwashed to hate Jews/ Israel/ any free people really). Anyway, I sure feel like I'm the biggest terrorist because I heart Israel! rolleyes Love the sarcasm, really I do. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are attacking you personally.
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:12 pm
OK, fair enough, you love Israel too. But there's a difference, you think that we can get peace by sitting back? I don't know how it's ever going to happen, but I don't want to see the Jews in Israel wiped out because they became lax about protection for their own people. I want people to be healthy, and happy and whole too. And don't call yourself selfish for wanting your friends and family to be alive, being alive is such a great thing! But those who are fighting, are fighting for others lives...
What point of view were you exactly trying to get me to look at if from? I am really unsure what you were trying to say in that aspect?! "Stuff them", yep it meant pretty much go ahead and fight. But only fighiting for Israeli peoples protection...
Palestinians wouldn't accept Israeli funding (or they would and still be ungrateful), and everyone else would have something to say about Israeli propoganda! I think Israel shouldn't worry about giving to them, as charity begins at home. First look after all those impoverished in Israel. sad Then move on to helping the Palestinians. I assume they would be quite ungrateful and more would die trying to help them.
You see, I don't think you are attacking me personally. But I feel very much attacked personally, becuase all of this is close to my heart. I am expressing how I feel, and frankly I feel more and more like a terrorist, because well apparently Jews/Zionists are such hateful people! Another point, I am sick of being nice, and rational about this topic (because well no one is nice and rational about it)! YARGH!!! domokun
PS. Not all of my points were directed at you...
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