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 Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:00 pm
For my argument and Debate class we chose to debate: whether or not the legal drinking age should be lowered to 18.
Should be interesting, I think I'll side with lowering it just to mix things up.
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:34 pm
Interesting subject. It's 21 there isn't it? The legal drinking age I mean. It's 18 here, but if you buy booze, it's 18 and 20 for 'hard' liquer ie over 30 vol bottles. Sometimes I wish the drinking age was put up to at least 20 here, because the bars are full off idiot first timers (barely 18s), who can't act and just drink a lot and then throw up all over the place or just trash everything with no control. I know there are idiots like that in every age group, but sometimes I wonder, even with only a few years over the legal age, how is it possible for my agegroup to act more civilised in bars? sad
Have fun with the debate! I've always hated doing them. I can't make a proper argument of a subject unfamiliar to me.
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:51 pm
It's a touchy subject but I personally think it's all based on how you are raised. If we teach our kids drinking is not a big deal, do it responsibly so no one gets hurts, I think that people would respond differentely than they are now.
To me, it seems that everyone gets wasted because "Oh look man, I can drink now!" Or you have kids drinking and saying, "Haha! I'm drinking 5-1 years before I'm legally alowed to! This is such a huge deal!"
Fact: Drinking is NOT a big deal, do it responsibly, do it legally.
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:09 pm
hollow, i agree generally with your arguments, and think you can make a good case. the drinking age here was actually 18 when my dad was in college. the problem was, they had 18 year old high school seniors who'd buy booze for their freshman friends/family, and then you'd have 14 year olds showing up to high school drunk, so they raised the drinking age to 21 in order to stop that. now we have 21 year old college students buying their younger friends/brothers booze, and we still have freshman showing up to school trashed. rolleyes if we actually had an intelligent cultural attitude towards drinking, we wouldnt have to worry about that as much, even if the drinking age was lowered.
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:45 pm
I've thought about this topic before, and I can't quite come up with a really on-the-money solution. One idea I had was to lower the drinking age to 18, but assess large duties on the purchase of liquor until the buyer turned 21. Problem with that is pretty obvious--people over 21 would just end up buying the booze at the regular price, leading back to where we currently are. The idea is to impose the duty on the age group most at risk for problem drinking without penalizing the adults responsible enough to handle the controlled substances. Only solution to that is increasing the age bracket for the duty to 18-25. Now that I'm sure would win no supporters, and I can see the unfairness of such a policy to responsible drinkers in their 20s.
So then, as Mega said, there should be an effort to change the culture surrounding the problem. Said problem is mostly centered in the high school senior/college freshman demographic. I think that the same thing should be done for drinking as has been done for sexual education (abstinence promoters, kindly silence yourselves) in public schools. That is, a vastly expanded education program in public schools for seniors and in colleges for freshmen. Concurrently, the drinking age would be lowered to 18. Of course, I can hear the sanctimonious, self-righteous opposition to this plan already, much as with sexual education, but some people just can't be made to see reason.
...
tl;dr, eh? xp
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:37 pm
18 eh? sneak to Belise.... If you can see over the counter, your old enough x.x
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Digital Malevolence Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:37 pm
I agree it should be lowered to 18 for the fact that by the time they reach 21 they should have realized drinking is no big deal and hopefully can move on with their life without having to drink themselves stupid every night for fun.
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Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:49 pm
We have the same problem here. You see, once you turn the "legal age" of 18 here in Australia, you can practically do what ever or go where ever you like. Provided that it's legal and your being responsible 3nodding but there's always that small group that ruins it for every one else stressed Some times underage drinkers can get away with drinking alcohol legally, through their parents. So long as: 1. ALL the parents of these underage drinkers know about it and can be contacted if anything goes wrong. 2. The parents were the ones that purchased the alcoholic beverages in the first place. 3. Limit the amount of beverages 4. It is only to be consumed at the house. Well that's pretty much it for underage drinkers. For everyone else... scream If people would just stick to the limits and consume alcohol responsibly. I wouldn't have to clean up after their mess every Friday/ Saturday nights. Guys no one thinks big of you when : 1. I see you having a hard time getting to the bar after having a few shots. Probably by then security would have already kicked you out. 2. Drowning in your own vomit. GROSS xp and no one enjoys cleaning up after you! xp 3. You start a fight in my watch stare 4. Same goes for the ladies 3nodding Don't forget to tip your bartender wink I totally agree with Hollow smile Quote: do it responsibly, do it legally
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:58 am
Parents. This is the only people that can make you not drink. In Poland the "drinking" age is 18. I say it like this because actually the law only forbids stores to sell alcohol to people younger than that. If you already have your alcohol - do what you will - your choice. Just remember you're going to face the consequences.
You know... drinking is not murdering or raping or stealing so any kind of law will never prevent people from doing that. You turn 18, 21, whatever and you can buy and drink. Murder, rape or steal you cannot ever and will always get punished.
Else, existence of such a law makes people believe that the system solves/solved the problem. Parents think "it's not my problem, it's the system's problem". And... It is the parents' problem... Either you raise your kid to be a responsible citizen or not.
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:10 am
Oh, and one more thing... which I always found... weird...
In US the law says:
When you're 20 you're not responsible enough to give you alcohol. Though you are responsible enough to decide who's going to become one of the most powerful persons on earth (President of USA).
So, are you responsible enough? Are you an adult or not?
And to show the difference of thinking between Poland and US. In Poland we say: you are an adult merchant - you cannot sell alcohol to kids because it's dangerous for them (for their health, generally speaking). And further down the line - if you're 16, under influence and do something wrong (like destroy something) - it's not you to pay (in terms of money), it's your parents' to pay. Hence parents know (or should know and realize) it's their resposibility, not system's, school's or whoever else's.
Let me ask you - if you're 19 and are caught drinking alcohol in US - does anything happen to you?
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:35 am
kacisko Parents. This is the only people that can make you not drink. In Poland the "drinking" age is 18. I say it like this because actually the law only forbids stores to sell alcohol to people younger than that. If you already have your alcohol - do what you will - your choice. Just remember you're going to face the consequences. You know... drinking is not murdering or raping or stealing so any kind of law will never prevent people from doing that. You turn 18, 21, whatever and you can buy and drink. Murder, rape or steal you cannot ever and will always get punished. Else, existence of such a law makes people believe that the system solves/solved the problem. Parents think "it's not my problem, it's the system's problem". And... It is the parents' problem... Either you raise your kid to be a responsible citizen or not. YES! and for your question, it differs from state to state. in maine, if you are 19, you can be punished for being drunk in public or whaterver, but not for actually drinking. however, if someone other than your parents provided the alcohol, THEY can get in serious trouble. if your parents gave you alcohol, on their property, and didnt provide for any other underage people, no one can be prosecuted
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:55 am
MegaTherion777 kacisko Parents. This is the only people that can make you not drink. In Poland the "drinking" age is 18. I say it like this because actually the law only forbids stores to sell alcohol to people younger than that. If you already have your alcohol - do what you will - your choice. Just remember you're going to face the consequences. You know... drinking is not murdering or raping or stealing so any kind of law will never prevent people from doing that. You turn 18, 21, whatever and you can buy and drink. Murder, rape or steal you cannot ever and will always get punished. Else, existence of such a law makes people believe that the system solves/solved the problem. Parents think "it's not my problem, it's the system's problem". And... It is the parents' problem... Either you raise your kid to be a responsible citizen or not. YES! and for your question, it differs from state to state. in maine, if you are 19, you can be punished for being drunk in public or whaterver, but not for actually drinking. however, if someone other than your parents provided the alcohol, THEY can get in serious trouble. if your parents gave you alcohol, on their property, and didnt provide for any other underage people, no one can be prosecuted In Poland if anybody is caught drunk on the street (meaning - drunk to the point they're not able to get back home on their own or police decide they create a danger for their own health or for the health of others - like could walk onto the road suddenly) - they are taken to a special place, which is existent in each city and where they get sober. Something like a sobering hotel with doctors watching your health. This service costs some money (probably around $100). If that's a kid, they would be taken to the parents. The only person who has problems if a kid buys alcohol is the merchant that sold the alcohol. I don't know what happens if an adult gives alcohol to a minor, though. Like a 19 yo buying alcohol for their 17 yo friend. The same is with cigarrettes, btw.
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:13 am
kacisko MegaTherion777 kacisko Parents. This is the only people that can make you not drink. In Poland the "drinking" age is 18. I say it like this because actually the law only forbids stores to sell alcohol to people younger than that. If you already have your alcohol - do what you will - your choice. Just remember you're going to face the consequences. You know... drinking is not murdering or raping or stealing so any kind of law will never prevent people from doing that. You turn 18, 21, whatever and you can buy and drink. Murder, rape or steal you cannot ever and will always get punished. Else, existence of such a law makes people believe that the system solves/solved the problem. Parents think "it's not my problem, it's the system's problem". And... It is the parents' problem... Either you raise your kid to be a responsible citizen or not. over here, if it's a minor, they are returned to their parents (the primary concern being safety). if not a minor, they spend a night in the holding cell at the police station to sober up, and may have to pay a fine. that's about it, i havent heard of much more for a "drunk in public" charge. of course, drunk driving gets much more serious charges (as it should), but for a simple case of a person who is tipsy walking around, that's about the worst that can happen YES! and for your question, it differs from state to state. in maine, if you are 19, you can be punished for being drunk in public or whaterver, but not for actually drinking. however, if someone other than your parents provided the alcohol, THEY can get in serious trouble. if your parents gave you alcohol, on their property, and didnt provide for any other underage people, no one can be prosecuted In Poland if anybody is caught drunk on the street (meaning - drunk to the point they're not able to get back home on their own or police decide they create a danger for their own health or for the health of others - like could walk onto the road suddenly) - they are taken to a special place, which is existent in each city and where they get sober. Something like a sobering hotel with doctors watching your health. This service costs some money (probably around $100). If that's a kid, they would be taken to the parents. The only person who has problems if a kid buys alcohol is the merchant that sold the alcohol. I don't know what happens if an adult gives alcohol to a minor, though. Like a 19 yo buying alcohol for their 17 yo friend. The same is with cigarrettes, btw. EDIT: i totally had a response here last night, but for some reason it disappeared when i posted it. now i dont remember it. sad face.
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:34 am
If an underaged person is caught drinking in public the police take them home and have a word with their parents and find out where they got the booze from. Then the responsible person gets some fee or something. If an underage person drinks at a party/home/where no one can see, no one can stop it either. I don't think underage drinking is a big problem here, most wait until they turn 18, or just drink mild drinks like ciders/beer bought by their parents before that. I remember my mum asking me when I was 15-16 if I wanted some cider/beer/long drink from the shop, I always declined, I don't like their taste. She also liked to offer me wine like with meals, but I don't like wines either. D:
I think the bigger problem here is that legal people buy bums and drunks alcohol for money, because the liquer stores won't sell to those who're wasted or who've just bought a 80 vol. bottle the day before. They have standards and don't just sell anything to anyone. And last summer there was a new thing out in the liquer store as well; if a person/a small group buy a buttload of alcohol, they ask everyone's ID from the group even if only one is buying everything and if it's only one person and a load of alcohol, they won't sell it all, just in case they're buying some of it for minors waiting outside. We also have security guards on the lookout for minors getting alcohol, oh, and gypsies. They're supposedly a pain in the butt, because they steal a lot, and cause trouble. My friend works at the local liquer store, so she knows. D:
Oh, and about this vomiting and stuff at bars, I think it's girls that do it here more than guys. At least looking at the womens' toilets half way through the night, they're in a terrible mess, but when you check the mens' toilets, they're quite fine. Strange. Though men do stupid stunts more instead of vomiting around. Like once I saw this guy order something from a female bartender, she turned away to make the drink while he lowered his pants and when she turned back he helicoptered her. =o The security guard came quite quickly and threw the man out. O.o
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:03 am
Dark_Mana
Oh, and about this vomiting and stuff at bars, I think it's girls that do it here more than guys. At least looking at the womens' toilets half way through the night, they're in a terrible mess, but when you check the mens' toilets, they're quite fine. Strange. Though men do stupid stunts more instead of vomiting around. Like once I saw this guy order something from a female bartender, she turned away to make the drink while he lowered his pants and when she turned back he helicoptered her. =o The security guard came quite quickly and threw the man out. O.o
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