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Lets see why would she be automatically qualified in the media's eyes?
  She is popular
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  She is black
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Twizted Humanitarian
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:15 pm


PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:18 pm


technically practically anyone can be a senator. I probably wouldn't vote for her, but the only qualifications you need are to be American (for nine years), to be a resident of the state you intend to represent, and to be 30.

mr_zoot


Alucard1057

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:01 pm


Let's name off celebrities in government shall we? Well first off, let's not forget Reagan, who was an actor. Then there's Schwarzenegger, there's Al Franken, Jesse Ventura, the ex-governor of Minnesota who used to be a wrestler. Also isn't there a comedian, somewhere in Congress? ...And I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:05 pm


Alucard1057
Let's name off celebrities in government shall we? Well first off, let's not forget Reagan, who was an actor. Then there's Schwarzenegger, there's Al Franken, Jesse Ventura, the ex-governor of Minnesota who used to be a wrestler. Also isn't there a comedian, somewhere in Congress? ...And I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting.


And Reagan was the only good one of the lot, celebrities in politics have a bad track record.

Twizted Humanitarian
Crew


Alucard1057

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:23 pm


Jesse Ventura's cool on my list, I like his aggressive liberal grassroots style. I think he should run for senate next term.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:25 pm


Alucard1057
Jesse Ventura's cool on my list, I like his aggressive liberal grassroots style. I think he should run for senate next term.


I think you can understand why I don't like considering I don't even like Arnold S. (sorry I just can't spell his last name)

Twizted Humanitarian
Crew


Alucard1057

PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:38 pm


Haha, no worries I can't spell it either, I copy-pasted his name from google search. But I don't think we can generalize celebrity politicians too much. I mean at least they're not like Bono who think he's an actual politician!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:40 pm


I merely felt it necessary that they have a bad track record for producing good politicians.

Twizted Humanitarian
Crew


mr_zoot

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:09 am


Regan was evil. A few good things happen to the world on his watch and we look back with nostalgia as if they were his doing.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:08 am


mr_zoot
Regan was evil. A few good things happen to the world on his watch and we look back with nostalgia as if they were his doing.


Ok I would like some specific reasons why you feel Reagan was evil.

Twizted Humanitarian
Crew


mr_zoot

PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:04 pm


increased the national debt while cutting social programs by increasing military spending.

He was jingoistically anti-communist. He called the Soviet Union "Empire of Evil"...much like Bush with NK and Iran...actually ending an era of cold war thawing and escalating tensions.

The "Reagan Doctrine" granted aid to paramilitary forces seeking to overthrow socialist governments, particularly in war-torn Central America and Afghanistan.... and we all know how that worked out

Iran Contra affair...nuff said

Reagan was pro-business and actively union busted, shifting the balance of power into the capitalists

poured money into the War on Drugs...a program notorious for its supply side focus that justifies US interference in other countries.

did jack diddley about AIDS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:51 pm


mr_zoot
increased the national debt while cutting social programs by increasing military spending.

He was jingoistically anti-communist. He called the Soviet Union "Empire of Evil"...much like Bush with NK and Iran...actually ending an era of cold war thawing and escalating tensions.

The "Reagan Doctrine" granted aid to paramilitary forces seeking to overthrow socialist governments, particularly in war-torn Central America and Afghanistan.... and we all know how that worked out

Iran Contra affair...nuff said

Reagan was pro-business and actively union busted, shifting the balance of power into the capitalists

poured money into the War on Drugs...a program notorious for its supply side focus that justifies US interference in other countries.

did jack diddley about AIDS


Cutting social programs is a good thing, it encourages people to motivate themselves rather than sucking off the government's breast.

You act like being anti-communist is a bad thing, communist governments are lead by dictators, dictators are even less tolerant of opposing viewpoints than Reagan was. Honestly had Bush been a dictator you would have had to keep your mouth shut for the last 8 years, I for one see oppossing an oppressive government as a good thing.

You know what else he ended? The cold war.

The Reagan doctrine tried to accomplish U.S. goals without using military forces, in an attempt to encourage people to take power into their own hands, now tell me how is that a bad thing?

The Iran Contra scandal, yes it was a mistake but people do in fact make mistakes even presidents do. One mistake does not make a person evil.

Capitalism is part of the free market system, the free market system works, but only when washington allows it to work. Bush I did not allow it to work effectively, Clinton sure didn't, Bush II even didn't, and I'm absolutely certain Obama will not.

Poured money into the war on drugs, poured money into trying to reduce the amount of junkies in this country, poured money into combating the illegitimate sector which pays no taxes and does nothing except make people dependent, and spread aids infected needles around.

In all fairness not many presidents have done much of anything about aids, in fact Bush II did more than any other president so shouldn't you be celebrating him or something?

Twizted Humanitarian
Crew


mr_zoot

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:53 am


cutting social programs...like social security? Programs like these are the motivation for some to work hard when they can. Hardly sucking off the government's breast.

communist was the label that the capitalists who fed like vampires off the working class (aka free market) used to point to very NON socialist regimes like the soviet union. Socialism is not about dictatorship. People like Reagan purposely conflated a very legitimate criticism of USSR's dictatorship into a fear of all socialism.....the result is the only industrialized nation without universal health care.....Thanks Reagan... stressed

even then I understand that cutting social programs might be necessary in a budget crunch....but Reagan cut those programs at the same he INCREASED military spending for a net increase in the national debt. That is straight garbage.

Reagan did not end the Cold War. It did him the favor of ending itself while he was on duty.

Enforcing US goals without military use usually takes the following form: arming and training rebels to overthrow anti US regimes. This type of policy has come back to bite us time and time again...most notably in the form of Saddam Hussein.

I will grant you that a free market system is efficient if it has some basic regulation (anti trust laws etc.) Without proper oversight, though, the system will empower a few to sacrifice further efficiency in order to maintain personal gain. An example of this is the lack of universal health care in the US. The owners of insurance companies are in a position to block progress to a more efficient health care model and they do so to maintain their own profit margins. The fact is a single payer system like in the UK would drastically reduce costs and increase the overall health of the population. Unfortunately, due to decades of an insufficiently regulated 'free market' the very few people who would lose out under that system are the ones with the power to stop it. And we pay the price.

I agree that drugs are bad. The War on Drugs is crap because of it's supply side focus. It would be more efficient to focus on internal law enforcement efforts rather than spending gobs of tax dollars trying to stop smugglers from entering the country. The Reagan administration knew this yet ignored our need because Supply Side Interdiction efforts gave us an excuse to interfere with other countries and influence their economies.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:48 pm


mr_zoot
cutting social programs...like social security? Programs like these are the motivation for some to work hard when they can. Hardly sucking off the government's breast.

communist was the label that the capitalists who fed like vampires off the working class (aka free market) used to point to very NON socialist regimes like the soviet union. Socialism is not about dictatorship. People like Reagan purposely conflated a very legitimate criticism of USSR's dictatorship into a fear of all socialism.....the result is the only industrialized nation without universal health care.....Thanks Reagan... stressed

even then I understand that cutting social programs might be necessary in a budget crunch....but Reagan cut those programs at the same he INCREASED military spending for a net increase in the national debt. That is straight garbage.

Reagan did not end the Cold War. It did him the favor of ending itself while he was on duty.

Enforcing US goals without military use usually takes the following form: arming and training rebels to overthrow anti US regimes. This type of policy has come back to bite us time and time again...most notably in the form of Saddam Hussein.

I will grant you that a free market system is efficient if it has some basic regulation (anti trust laws etc.) Without proper oversight, though, the system will empower a few to sacrifice further efficiency in order to maintain personal gain. An example of this is the lack of universal health care in the US. The owners of insurance companies are in a position to block progress to a more efficient health care model and they do so to maintain their own profit margins. The fact is a single payer system like in the UK would drastically reduce costs and increase the overall health of the population. Unfortunately, due to decades of an insufficiently regulated 'free market' the very few people who would lose out under that system are the ones with the power to stop it. And we pay the price.

I agree that drugs are bad. The War on Drugs is crap because of it's supply side focus. It would be more efficient to focus on internal law enforcement efforts rather than spending gobs of tax dollars trying to stop smugglers from entering the country. The Reagan administration knew this yet ignored our need because Supply Side Interdiction efforts gave us an excuse to interfere with other countries and influence their economies.


Yeah if you didn't hear we kind of had a cold war going on that we needed to wrap up, his defense expenditures boosted american pride and created jobs.

We were never talking about socialism, I do believe the Soviet Union was communist not socialist, please try to stay on point.

Now that you have brought socialism to the table I feel I must address it, socialized healthcare, which how much government programs fail at almost every turn the last thing I want to do is entrust them with the most important thing of all. Public education... failure, I don't know about where you live but here, road maintenance... failure, NASA... failure, U.N.... failure, here all trash collection is mandated to one company, they are feeding on us like vampires. I kind of like the free market system I've seen it work, but everywhere government has a hand from city to international I've seen nothing but failure, even the library where I live fails we now have 4 big screen plasma tv's at our library 3 of which are still in the boxes from a month ago, all the while the higher ups tell the workers [me and my co workers] that we've had to cut back hours and staff because we're running out of money.

I'm quite convinced that if socialized healthcare arrives I will lose out, I've never seen the government do to much right, and I don't want to lose out on the most important thing of all. You wanna make America healthier, socialized healtcare is not the solution, cut out alot of mcdonalds, burger king, and taco bell. We are unhealthy because we eat like crap and don't exercise, if we keep this up socialized healthcare wouldn't be able to handle us.

Other nations eat much healthier and exercise more too. We are a nation of obesity, not because our healthcare, but because our laziness, which is part of the reason we're running in the red now too.

Maybe Reagan saw what was not working and tried something new, instead of critisizing his idea lets find a better one, one that perhaps makes more cops instead of telling the existing ones to do better. As it stands now I'd rather defend my own life than to call the cops, I agree we need better law enforcement but the government in all its "wisdom" is highly unlikely to approve higher budgets for police departments so I don't see anything changing anytime soon. Also are you suggesting we should abandon hope of catching the guys who cross our borders illegally with the one and only purpose of selling drugs to our youth? That sounds pretty depressing to me that anyone would argue for a relaxation of border patrols. Instead of this socialized crap lets spend our extra tax dollars on something that works better... more law enforcement.

I agree that it was Reagans luck that S.U. fell on his watch, but to say he had no influence on it is ridiculous. By that logic George W. Bush is completely innocent of the mess we're in now, we're in a jam now because GWB is pursued the same failed economic policies of his father. Maybe his don't fail as much as they could have, but economies are like children, sometimes they do good, sometimes they do bad it all depends onwhat people expect of them. If a kid thinks that people think he's a punk he's gonna be a punk. Also economies like children will work worse and worse the more you try and mandate them and surround them sanctions. The more you let them do thier own thing as much as humanely possible [I.E. anti trusts ect.] of course you cannot let economies just run free but the more you tell it to run the less it will.

Twizted Humanitarian
Crew


mr_zoot

PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:53 pm


Twizted Humanitarian

Yeah if you didn't hear we kind of had a cold war going on that we needed to wrap up, his defense expenditures boosted american pride and created jobs.


read: made defense contractors a butt load of money at the taxpayer expense (TWICE since he cut social programs AND increased the deficit)
and manipulated our pride so that we were happy about it.

Created jobs? Only jobs that seniors now needed because they could no longer retire due to social security cuts. working hard your whole life is one thing....working hard until the day you die is a sign that you are getting milked by greedy people who don't care.

Twizted Humanitarian

We were never talking about socialism, I do believe the Soviet Union was communist not socialist, please try to stay on point.


you play label games. The Reagan administration often equated the two for the purpose of scaring people into his vampiric embrace and then invoking American pride to make them happy to be there.
A. The organization of Soviet agriculture and industry into communes (communism) was not "evil" and has nothing to do with the fact that their last few leaders were abusive dictators.
B. Running organizations by the government for the benefit of the public (socialism) may create a lot of bureaucracy, but it doesn't create dictators.

The lesson we should have learned from the USSR is NOT socialism sucks, but socializing EVERYTHING is too inefficient. Industry flourishes in a free market.

Essential SERVICES (police, fire, edu, hospital), however, are things that people need and should NEVER be in the ultimate control of people with a primary motive for profit.

The lesson that people like Reagan learned is that ESSENTIAL SERVICES would be a great thing to control because, as they are ESSENTIAL, everyone will have to pay for them. There is no choice in the matter. I can choose to not have a TV, its on the industry to make the coolest TV possible and advertise it to make me want it. In this way, the free market fuels industrial innovation. But if I get sick...I can't not go to the doctor. No sane person with a reasonable expectation of continued life would just allow themselves to die. Here the profit motive works in reverse. Instead of innovating and improving, they just spend all their time figuring out how to charge you more and for longer.

You mention a bunch of failed government programs...
Public education : capitalists control this

Road maintenance: should never have spent money on all those roads in the first place. That was the influence of oil and auto money. They make more money if the government builds roads instead of train tracks.

NASA: not a failure...just ask your microwave....or velcro

Garbage contracts: yes its a failure because its a privatized service! privatization of services without proper regulation sucks!

your library: libraries rule. Im sorry yours is a victim of the cutting of social programs. The government should be giving your library more money instead of to Halliburton and Blackwater...... sweatdrop

I defended socialized medicine in another thread....I got go to work anyway.
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