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 Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:36 pm
Hey peeps. biggrin So, like many a college level Zutarian, this year I picked up the course of Psychology. This was for my own reasons of improving my storytelling and understanding human emotion, but also for the fan-dweeb part of me, it was a chance to get more in touch with not only my own characters, but Avatar characters. Zuko and Katara mostly. Since we all know that Psychology ships Zutara. TODAY I BRING YOU PROOF! Up until now, the course has mainly been phisiology(sp?) and the biological parts of psychology so I haven't really gotten any Zutarian gems. But today at last we discussed emotions. Though it was still a lot of phisiology and how emotions actually happens and theories thereof, my teacher had this to say in her lecture. "The NUMBER ONE FACTOR in forming PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS is EMPATHY." It's the number one characteristics of personal relationships. Also, that people WANT people who can feel the same and put themselves into their shoes. I don't know how many of you read my essay about Empathy in Avatar romances, but um, yeah. WHO can do this best for Katara? and WHO can do this best for Zuko? biggrin Mai can't for Zuko, and Aang certainly can't for Katara. Outstanding Evidence: TSR, Every Maiko episode, EIP (feel free to add to the listsince I haven't got the time to go much further with it, lol) Psychology-bending > Bryke's Canon. DISCUSS! heart
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:19 pm
Maybe Bryke should take psychology. 8D Might help them understand how much they baffled their fans.
And, to add to the list, 'The Beach' is pretty solid evidence that Mai and Zuko are incompatible. They like each other, they care about each other, but they don't understand each other and can't even tolerate one another's most dominate traits. Zuko is annoyed by how emotionally closed off Mai is, while Mai is annoyed by Zuko's tendency to explode with emotions. They just clash too much.
As fro Kataang... Well, there's various episodes that show Aang can neither understand or handle Katara's temper, such as 'The Waterbending Scroll'.
... Man, now I really wanna take psychology. =D
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:27 am
rachaella22 Maybe Bryke should take psychology. 8D Might help them understand how much they baffled their fans. And, to add to the list, 'The Beach' is pretty solid evidence that Mai and Zuko are incompatible. They like each other, they care about each other, but they don't understand each other and can't even tolerate one another's most dominate traits. Zuko is annoyed by how emotionally closed off Mai is, while Mai is annoyed by Zuko's tendency to explode with emotions. They just clash too much. As fro Kataang... Well, there's various episodes that show Aang can neither understand or handle Katara's temper, such as 'The Waterbending Scroll'. ... Man, now I really wanna take psychology. =D You really should. It makes you analyze stuff even more! D: lol
TSR really stands out to me. Instead of trying to see where she was coming form with his experience from losing the Air Nomads, he just kind of...told her what she should do. He didn't try to support her, he kind of condemned her. He didn't understand her, and he REALLY couldn't read into the whole issue of her confusing her anger with the Fire Nation and Zuko. Um...He still knew nothing about what happened in the cave and why she was so damn HURT by Zuko. HE HAD NO IDEA how complicated the whole thing was and what the confrontation really meant. Yet he found the time to preach instead of REACH OUT.
Instead, it was ZUKO who reached out, understood and helped her (in her own decision, no less), and it was ZUKO who got a Katara-hug at the end of the episode, while her usual hug-cushion, Aang, got none and a glare. *snicker* XD Zuko's hug was so much more sweet than the Kataang hugs anyway...*grins*
*anger comes back* Augh, This is why I don't get Kataang. Aang doesn't know Katara at all. He doesn't know how to handle her, and he has no idea how deep she is. Zuko, just...Knows. Once they stopped yelling at each other, they immediately connected on a deep, emphatic level, which was what turned me on to Zutara in the first place. I loved the pair because they were so deep and they had this bond. And it's that bond that is the start of relationships! Kataang don't really have anything aside from love at first sight, or something. Which wouldn't be so bad if they were simply more compatible. :/
I don't know what Psychology class Mike and Bryan took, but they obviously missed a few classes.
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:56 pm
Teh_Sheba rachaella22 Maybe Bryke should take psychology. 8D Might help them understand how much they baffled their fans. And, to add to the list, 'The Beach' is pretty solid evidence that Mai and Zuko are incompatible. They like each other, they care about each other, but they don't understand each other and can't even tolerate one another's most dominate traits. Zuko is annoyed by how emotionally closed off Mai is, while Mai is annoyed by Zuko's tendency to explode with emotions. They just clash too much. As fro Kataang... Well, there's various episodes that show Aang can neither understand or handle Katara's temper, such as 'The Waterbending Scroll'. ... Man, now I really wanna take psychology. =D You really should. It makes you analyze stuff even more! D: lol
TSR really stands out to me. Instead of trying to see where she was coming form with his experience from losing the Air Nomads, he just kind of...told her what she should do. He didn't try to support her, he kind of condemned her. He didn't understand her, and he REALLY couldn't read into the whole issue of her confusing her anger with the Fire Nation and Zuko. Um...He still knew nothing about what happened in the cave and why she was so damn HURT by Zuko. HE HAD NO IDEA how complicated the whole thing was and what the confrontation really meant. Yet he found the time to preach instead of REACH OUT.
Instead, it was ZUKO who reached out, understood and helped her (in her own decision, no less), and it was ZUKO who got a Katara-hug at the end of the episode, while her usual hug-cushion, Aang, got none and a glare. *snicker* XD Zuko's hug was so much more sweet than the Kataang hugs anyway...*grins*
*anger comes back* Augh, This is why I don't get Kataang. Aang doesn't know Katara at all. He doesn't know how to handle her, and he has no idea how deep she is. Zuko, just...Knows. Once they stopped yelling at each other, they immediately connected on a deep, emphatic level, which was what turned me on to Zutara in the first place. I loved the pair because they were so deep and they had this bond. And it's that bond that is the start of relationships! Kataang don't really have anything aside from love at first sight, or something. Which wouldn't be so bad if they were simply more compatible. :/
I don't know what Psychology class Mike and Bryan took, but they obviously missed a few classes. Agreed, on so many levels. I mean, when Aang discovered Gyatso dead/Appa had been stolen, he flipped out. He went Avatar State immediately with Gyatso, and when Appa was gone we just yelled at everyone and treated them like s**t (and never apologized, I'd like to point out) and then went Avatar State and almost killed everyone. But when Katara even thinks of confronting the man who had murdered her mother, an issue she had been dealing with for years, he goes into preacher mode and tells her to forgive rather than take rash action. Umm, sorry Aang but, asmuch as I agree with the idea of forgiveness (to a point, anyway), I don't think you're one to talk. :/ Zuko didn't even know Katara in Ba Sing Se, yet he still reached out listened to her problems, and understood her. That's huge, and it was a mutual thing. Plus, he also knew when to let her yell at him and when to fight back - that shows understanding, not to mention an astounding growth in patience since the beginning of the series. And, yes, the hug was very sweet and adorable. whee Zuko's expression was so adorably confused at first, and then he got that dopey grin on his face. <3 And Katara, like, caressed his arm before she walked away. xD I'm thinkin' Bryke took child Psychology - they probably don't discuss romance much with that sort of thing.
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:48 pm
rachaella22 Teh_Sheba rachaella22 Maybe Bryke should take psychology. 8D Might help them understand how much they baffled their fans. And, to add to the list, 'The Beach' is pretty solid evidence that Mai and Zuko are incompatible. They like each other, they care about each other, but they don't understand each other and can't even tolerate one another's most dominate traits. Zuko is annoyed by how emotionally closed off Mai is, while Mai is annoyed by Zuko's tendency to explode with emotions. They just clash too much. As fro Kataang... Well, there's various episodes that show Aang can neither understand or handle Katara's temper, such as 'The Waterbending Scroll'. ... Man, now I really wanna take psychology. =D You really should. It makes you analyze stuff even more! D: lol
TSR really stands out to me. Instead of trying to see where she was coming form with his experience from losing the Air Nomads, he just kind of...told her what she should do. He didn't try to support her, he kind of condemned her. He didn't understand her, and he REALLY couldn't read into the whole issue of her confusing her anger with the Fire Nation and Zuko. Um...He still knew nothing about what happened in the cave and why she was so damn HURT by Zuko. HE HAD NO IDEA how complicated the whole thing was and what the confrontation really meant. Yet he found the time to preach instead of REACH OUT.
Instead, it was ZUKO who reached out, understood and helped her (in her own decision, no less), and it was ZUKO who got a Katara-hug at the end of the episode, while her usual hug-cushion, Aang, got none and a glare. *snicker* XD Zuko's hug was so much more sweet than the Kataang hugs anyway...*grins*
*anger comes back* Augh, This is why I don't get Kataang. Aang doesn't know Katara at all. He doesn't know how to handle her, and he has no idea how deep she is. Zuko, just...Knows. Once they stopped yelling at each other, they immediately connected on a deep, emphatic level, which was what turned me on to Zutara in the first place. I loved the pair because they were so deep and they had this bond. And it's that bond that is the start of relationships! Kataang don't really have anything aside from love at first sight, or something. Which wouldn't be so bad if they were simply more compatible. :/
I don't know what Psychology class Mike and Bryan took, but they obviously missed a few classes. Agreed, on so many levels. I mean, when Aang discovered Gyatso dead/Appa had been stolen, he flipped out. He went Avatar State immediately with Gyatso, and when Appa was gone we just yelled at everyone and treated them like s**t (and never apologized, I'd like to point out) and then went Avatar State and almost killed everyone. But when Katara even thinks of confronting the man who had murdered her mother, an issue she had been dealing with for years, he goes into preacher mode and tells her to forgive rather than take rash action. Umm, sorry Aang but, asmuch as I agree with the idea of forgiveness (to a point, anyway), I don't think you're one to talk. :/ Zuko didn't even know Katara in Ba Sing Se, yet he still reached out listened to her problems, and understood her. That's huge, and it was a mutual thing. Plus, he also knew when to let her yell at him and when to fight back - that shows understanding, not to mention an astounding growth in patience since the beginning of the series. And, yes, the hug was very sweet and adorable. whee Zuko's expression was so adorably confused at first, and then he got that dopey grin on his face. <3 And Katara, like, caressed his arm before she walked away. xD I'm thinkin' Bryke took child Psychology - they probably don't discuss romance much with that sort of thing. Exactly. Aang turned out to be very hypocritical. He never even apologized to TOPH, who he REALLY bitched at, yet she stayed with him. Yelling at Toph and never apologizing? Yea-no. That won't do. >( the whole thing with telling Katara to forgive and forget? Yeah. Right. It's a lovely thought but it would not work. Katara needed closure, and that is something only Zuko understood. You'd think that going ape-s**t after Gyatso's death and Appa being gone would leave him GUILTY more than anything because of how it made him behave, but, oh well...
It's funny, but even though I think TSR was done as kind of both fan-service and to "convince us" that Zuko and Katara bring out the worst, vengeful and angry traits in each other, they still managed to prove their compatability even further. Mike and Bryan are good at that, if nothing else.
xd
And yes, in Ba Sing Se, they went from zero to almost friends in that short time. When you can connect like that with someone, moreso an enemy, that is amazing. That is the basis of something great, be it friendship or actual romance. And that's why I stand firm in my belief that even though Zuko and KAtara are just BFF (for now, lol), they have SO much more chemistry, connection, and appeal than Kataang's romance does. It shows in their freakin' hug. whee
Again, Mike and Bryan did the Zutara hug better and more romantically appealing than they did the Kataang ones. biggrin
You're probably right. That' probably why we didn't get much in the way of Katara's feelings. Their child psych class only took them into a 12-year old's mind.
D:
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Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:25 pm
How's this for a bit of psych: Aang has an Oedipus complex. Through the entire series Katara's basically been a mother/older sister/babysitter/teacher to him. The whole crush thing was cute at first, but that it actually lead to something is a little sick. Y'all know that she's going to be mothering him forever now, right? He's never gonna man up and he's probably gonna go all Norman Bates if she dies. I think the biggest problem with this pairing is that they won't allow each other to grow. He's going to keep looking to her to be this ideal woman, and she's going to baby him. The day he actually tries to stand up to her, she'll probably cut off his precious cojones and feed them to Appa. There's nothing healthy in their relationship.
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:52 pm
Ladrona del Corazon How's this for a bit of psych: Aang has an Oedipus complex. Through the entire series Katara's basically been a mother/older sister/babysitter/teacher to him. The whole crush thing was cute at first, but that it actually lead to something is a little sick. Y'all know that she's going to be mothering him forever now, right? He's never gonna man up and he's probably gonna go all Norman Bates if she dies. I think the biggest problem with this pairing is that they won't allow each other to grow. He's going to keep looking to her to be this ideal woman, and she's going to baby him. The day he actually tries to stand up to her, she'll probably cut off his precious cojones and feed them to Appa. There's nothing healthy in their relationship. Wow,that really makes sense.They aren't giving eachother enough room to grow.That's the thing I really hate about kataang too,it's just Aang's little crush and Katara's motherly side.So irritating.It would of ended better if they just stayed friends or something (or Aang died and Zuko had to take over for him,then being with Zuko all the time Katara realizes that they're in love with eachother). Maybe it would of bee better if they all stayed friends,so we wouldn't have to get all mad about the ship endings...*sigh* Bryke should of really taken better psychology classes... stare
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:47 pm
so, i have a degree in psychology, and i wouldn't necessarily say psychology ships zutara, so much as human nature as a whole ships zutara. i wrote a whole tl;dr meta in my lj on kataang/zutara and the triangular theory of love. for some reason i can't find the entry, but basically there are 3 parts to a healthy, romantic relationship: intimacy, commitment and passion. without the passion, you have companionate love - i.e. the love between 2 good friends. this is what katara and aang have. there is just no passion between them, at all. katara and zuko certainly have the passion, they develop the intimacy towards the end of season 3, all that would be left is the commitment (easily remedied). EDIT: FOUND IT! although in the essay i say katara & zuko don't have passion yet, there i mean it in terms of lust, whereas above i meant it in terms of emotional intensity and that kind of interpersonal dynamic that SPARKS passion wink Quote: technically, a friendship is a type of relationship. but a romantic relationship has aspects that a friendship doesn't - namely, the whole sex/marriage thing. sternberg's triangular theory of love defines friendship as consisting entirely of intimacy (closeness), without commitment or passion (sexyteims). infatuated love consists of passion without commitment or intimacy, and empty love consists of commitment without passion or intimacy.
then you have romantic love (intimacy and passion without commitment), and companionate love, which consists of intimacy and commitment without passion. this is what aang and katara have. they're obviously very close, and committed to stay together regardless of context. relationships notwithstanding, they'll at least be BFFs forever. but companionate love is not a full, complete and healthy relationship. it is, as the name suggests, a relationship between COMPANIONS. "The love ideally shared between family members is a form of companionate love, as is the love between close friends who have a platonic but strong friendship." consummate love requires intimacy, commitment, AND PASSION. which means you have to have SOME kind of physical/sexual attraction to the other person. i question whether aang truly feels SEXUAL attraction to katara, being that he grew up a monk and that kind of thing is generally discouraged amongst monks, if it's brought up at all. i'd be surprised if he even knew what sex was. and i question whether katara feels sexual attraction to aang, because frankly, with the exception of the last 10 seconds of the finale, she never displayed anything even remotely resembling "he's hot, i'd like to get me summa that."
on the other hand, zutara has the potential for that consummate love. in terms of canon, bryke probably shot it in the foot in "the ember island players," when the cave of zutara scene prompted katara and zuko to look at each other uncomfortably, and then scoot away from each other. if there had already been any physical attraction, they wouldn't have minded that implication so much. on the other hand, they react pretty severely when jun makes the predictable girlfriend remark, looking almost like they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. whereas when sokka made comments about aang liking katara, she wasn't even phased. the concept of that kind of relationship with aang was completely incomprehensible to her. by the end of the series, though, katara and zuko already have intimacy. in all likelihood, passion would've come next, then commitment. and i find it interesting that kataangers tend to shoot down zutara because of that, claiming that marriage comes BEFORE sex, when we're given no indication from any of the nations that premarital sex is frowned upon.
why would passion form between katara and zuko but not aang and katara? because aang's just not a passionate person. zuko is obviously the kind of guy who would pin your wrists and ******** you up a wall. katara is the kind of girl who fights for dominance, she'd grab a fistful of your hair and pull until she was on top and riding you like an incomplete simile. (shut up i couldn't think of anything >.>;;) but aang? as soon as katara got naked he'd be like "*NOSEBLEED* ASFLKJSLDKFJAS DDDDDD8" he's the kind of guy who cowers under the sheets and goes "I HAS PEEN? HOW DOES I USE PEEN? DDD8". the most a guy like that can expect from a girl is a couple of ******** and katara just don't have the DYNAMIC of an intimate, committed, PASSIONATE relationship. katara and zuko do. that's what makes zutara so dark & intriguing & the ultimate hawt sexyteims ship. wink
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:04 pm
diet otaku: So, your summary of Kataang and Zutara is completely perfect. =D Zuko and Katara are both incredibly passionate people who have an undeniable chemistry even as just friends. It wouldn't take much for them to grow into having consummate love. Kataang... I dunno. I think, at this point, Aang is just too young to really have the deep passion of a mature relationship. He only understands friendship and infatuation.
Also, the whole "I HAS PEEN? HOW DOES I USE PEEN? DDD8" thing made me crack up. xD
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:38 am
KATARA: *undresses* AANG: *sputters* KATARA, PUT YOUR CLOTHES BACK ON! LET'S NOT BE INDECENT, NOW! ZUKO: *kicks the door in* HEY! (zuko here.) KATARA. KATARA: yes? ZUKO: LET'S ********: ASLDKFJAS 'KAY 8DDD *pounce* AANG: *sad monkeyfaise* (partially stolen from this capstara post)
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:03 am
diet otaku KATARA: *undresses* AANG: *sputters* KATARA, PUT YOUR CLOTHES BACK ON! LET'S NOT BE INDECENT, NOW! ZUKO: *kicks the door in* HEY! (zuko here.) KATARA. KATARA: yes? ZUKO: LET'S f**k. KATARA: ASLDKFJAS 'KAY 8DDD *pounce* AANG: *sad monkeyfaise* (partially stolen from this capstara post) Oh my gosh!! Hahaha!! That was great! XD
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:06 pm
diet otaku KATARA: *undresses* AANG: *sputters* KATARA, PUT YOUR CLOTHES BACK ON! LET'S NOT BE INDECENT, NOW! ZUKO: *kicks the door in* HEY! (zuko here.) KATARA. KATARA: yes? ZUKO: LET'S ********: ASLDKFJAS 'KAY 8DDD *pounce* AANG: *sad monkeyfaise* (partially stolen from this capstara post) *dead from laughter* xD You know that's what happened ten minutes after the finale.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:59 pm
lol, Aang: MY INNOCENT MONK EYES CANNOT UNSEEE!!! D8>
I'd say more, but really everyone else has taken care of it! EPIC LULZ!
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:48 am
Ok, I know I've done the Oedipal complex thing already, but I've remembered something that happened in the show that made the whole Kataang thing even more creepy. Katara has literally played the role of his mother before. Remember the episode where Aang went to a Firenation school? She pretended to be his mother. This seems like the best representation of their relationship in the entire series. I'm just sayin'.
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Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:08 am
Ladrona del Corazon Ok, I know I've done the Oedipal complex thing already, but I've remembered something that happened in the show that made the whole Kataang thing even more creepy. Katara has literally played the role of his mother before. Remember the episode where Aang went to a Firenation school? She pretended to be his mother. This seems like the best representation of their relationship in the entire series. I'm just sayin'. Yeah, not to mention the fact that Aang admitted she mothered him in 'The Runaway." Sure, she may be motherly to Sokka and Toph, too, but it seems to double where Aang is concerned. Also, she has never once showed motherly-ness toward Zuko - the way they met each other made it kinda hard for her to see him as someone who needed to be protected and scolded. Also, in the finale he was the father and she was the mother xD Srsly. Sorry, babbling.
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