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 Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:01 pm
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/542105TEL AVIV–An Israeli court jailed eight Jewish teenagers on Sunday for carrying out neo-Nazi attacks in a case that sparked revulsion in a state that was a haven for Jews after the Holocaust. Tel Aviv District Court Judge Zvi Gurfinkel sentenced the teenagers, aged 16 to 19, to between one and seven years in prison for a "shocking and horrifying" year-long spree of attacks that targeted foreign workers, ultra-Orthodox Jews and homeless men. The court said the group also planned to attack Arabs. The eight teenagers were immigrants to Israel from the former Soviet Union and court documents cited social adjustment difficulties as a factor behind their involvement in the gang, which posted pro-Adolf Hitler video clips on the Internet. ---  Ok, first let's explain a few things. One of the reasons, we don't up and decide to bulldoze all Arab communities and launch wars of attrition and annihilation against Arab nations and wipe out the people and the culture of Muslims in the middle east is because IT WAS DONE TO US! We founded Israel as a safe haven for the Jewish People, however in defense of Zion we should NEVER BECOME WHAT WE ONCE HATED! If Israel ever gets it in it's collective head that we should wipe out Arabs and put non Jews in concentration camps and kill people in the street for not being Jewish enough, then we should pull up stakes and leave Israel. We don't deserve the Promised Land if we, as a people, did not learn the lesson of NEVER AGAIN.
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:02 am
I've heard this before. Some neo-Nazis were arrested in Israel a few years back. All I can remember is thinking life imprisonment was too good for them.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:35 pm
Behatzlacha-S I've heard this before. Some neo-Nazis were arrested in Israel a few years back. All I can remember is thinking life imprisonment was too good for them. This disturbs me. How can anybody proclaim to be Jewish and do something like this? Heck, I don't know how anybody can in the first place...
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:01 pm
darkphoenix1247 This disturbs me. How can anybody proclaim to be Jewish and do something like this? Heck, I don't know how anybody can in the first place... Ever heard the term, "Jewish in the eyes of Uncle Joe?" It means "Soviet Jews are only Jewish because the state says so." I knew a guy who was born in St Petersburg and who's family migrated to Israel as Soviet Jews. He knows NOTHING about being Jewish, the culture is alien to him. Hell, Allistor Cromwell is more Jewish than he is. He is a proud Russian who got sent to Israel because the state said he was Jewish and could go, regardless of his practice. He would rather be back in Russia than Israel. People from the former soviet union who were "Jews in the eyes of Uncle Joe." tend not to like Israel very much. Civic laws based on the Talmud are foreign, the food is foreign, the whole culture is foreign. I asked him once what he felt about Israel, he said. "Really, not my place, I don't belong there." His life of being a fly in the ointment didn't leave him bitter though, it left him VERY bitter. The reason he left Israel is because he didn't want to be conscripted into the Army. He came to America because Russia was quickly becoming a third world country. He occasionally pines for the days when the communists had control. I can see why some people might want to be Israeli Nazis, especially if their only Jewish heritage is on Government forms.
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The Fabulous Prince Babel
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:18 pm
LordNeuf Hell, Allistor Cromwell is more Jewish than he is. And I'm not even official yet. xp
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:54 pm
Neuf, I'm not sure about this bloke you're talking about, but in Soviet passports you were classified as the nationality of your parents. So if your parents were Jewish you were Jewish. If one of your parents was Jewish and the other wasn't, you could choose (and obviously it was advantageous to choose the Gentile parent's nationality, and most probably did). So 99.9% of the people who are "Jewish in the eyes of Uncle Joe" as you put it, are fully Jewish by ancestry. It's not their fault communism stole their culture from them.
These neo-Nazis are quite clearly not Jews. I saw their surnames on some other website and they're all a bunch of Ukrainians and Belarussians. Though the vast majority of "Russian" Israelis are ethnically Jewish, a few thousand got in by forging documents to say one of their grandparents was Jewish. These guys aren't Jews in the eyes of Stalin, Hitler or anyone.
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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:55 am
How horrible!!! I'm so disheartened. I have no idea why someone would choose to do this.
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:29 am
I remember reading this in the papers. And LordNeuf and DanskiWolf are more or less right in their sentiments. The thing is, the people who did this were among Soviet citizens who made aliyah to to Israel while not actually being Jewish by Halakha, since they were permitted to immigrate for having paternal Jewish connections rather than maternal, thus not actually being Jewish. And typical of many Eastern European attitudes towards Jews throughout history combined with the naivety of their youth, it's not really surprising, other than the fact that they were in Holy Land while doing it... Quote: I saw their surnames on some other website and they're all a bunch of Ukrainians and Belarussians. But many Israelis have Russian/Ukrainian/General Eastern European surnames... confused Quote: Though the vast majority of "Russian" Israelis are ethnically Jewish, a few thousand got in by forging documents to say one of their grandparents was Jewish. These guys aren't Jews in the eyes of Stalin, Hitler or anyone. Although this is true, as I said many didn't even have to forge their documents. They simply had a paternal Jewish connection which was good enough even for Israel at the time.
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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 am
itsthatKat But many Israelis have Russian/Ukrainian/General Eastern European surnames... confused These surnames weren't Jewish though. Having '-sky' at the end doesn't automatically make a surname Russian or whatever. Quote: Although this is true, as I said many didn't even have to forge their documents. They simply had a paternal Jewish connection which was good enough even for Israel at the time. It's still good enough, as it should be. Denying ethnic Jews the right to immigrate to a land free of anti-Semitism because they don't have the proper maternal blood would be retarded and contradictory to the whole point of the Law or Return (which is a secular law, not an Orthodox rabbinical one).
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:14 pm
Quote: It's still good enough, as it should be. Denying ethnic Jews the right to immigrate to a land free of anti-Semitism because they don't have the proper maternal blood would be retarded and contradictory to the whole point of the Law or Return (which is a secular law, not an Orthodox rabbinical one). There is no such thing as "Jewish blood", at least in a biological sense. There are Jews of all "races", but Jewish spiritual lineage travels through maternal lines, not paternal. If their mothers weren't Jewish, they aren't Jewish.
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:38 pm
Actually, I've always taken the road that if the fathers are Jewish, but the mothers are not, then the child must simply work harder at his Judaism to be counted as Jewish. My mother was born to a Christian family, and my father is Jewish. I had to work hard, but every Jewish person I know counts me as a full Jew, and I count myself as one.
The only person I know to look down at me for being born to a Gentile mother was a Lubavitch (sp?) rabbi who was slightly insulting to me on Yom Kippur.
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:52 pm
darkphoenix1247 Behatzlacha-S I've heard this before. Some neo-Nazis were arrested in Israel a few years back. All I can remember is thinking life imprisonment was too good for them. This disturbs me. How can anybody proclaim to be Jewish and do something like this? Heck, I don't know how anybody can in the first place... I might be out of line here, but Yigal Amir was Jewish and he killed Yitzhak Rabin.
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:53 pm
Quote: Actually, I've always taken the road that if the fathers are Jewish, but the mothers are not, then the child must simply work harder at his Judaism to be counted as Jewish. My mother was born to a Christian family, and my father is Jewish. I had to work hard, but every Jewish person I know counts me as a full Jew, and I count myself as one. The only person I know to look down at me for being born to a Gentile mother was a Lubavitch (sp?) rabbi who was slightly insulting to me on Yom Kippur. Hmm. It's just all the sources I have read have said to be born a Jew, your mother must be Jewish. And although the Reform movement begs to differ, most sources I have read say this. Nevertheless, I am embarrassed to admit I have no idea where the "mother" law came from, because "tribal" lineage is paternal... (Sorry about the Rabbi by the way, from here I'm receiving the ultimate Jewage vibe from you, so bugger him... or at least may Hashem guide him to reason and truth)
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:07 pm
What I said is probably not mentioned in the Torah, and very briefly in the Talmud. My Progressive rabbi told me it, and I stick by it.
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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:30 pm
Ya never know about anything, besides the fact that Lumanny will not fail to comment on everything to get the last word.
The Torah is essentially the best source for such things, but not everything is in it.
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