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Desperado de Anarquia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:25 pm


I am curious to see where other Jews stand when it comes to politics. I myself intend to major in International Political Science after High School, so inevitably politics is probably my favorite thing to talk about.

Discuss:
How do you think things should be run? Why?
Inquiring about other Schools of Political thought.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:45 am


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show. Look up this guy, and you'll find my basic ideology.

Then look up Ron Paul... and see the similarities.

LordNeuf
Crew


Dis Domnu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:40 am


Awwww, Neuf, don't be a Paulite! gonk

I'z be a semi-socialist thingie. Think the gov't should provide the essentials (for me, this includes food, shelter, healthcare, and education) and let the markets handle the rest. I like diplomacy, a lot. Think we should be doing more of it.

There’s lots more, and maybe someday I’ll have the time to write it all down in detail, then you can all buy my book. =P biggrin
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:04 am


Quote:
Think the gov't should provide the essentials (for me, this includes food, shelter, healthcare, and education)


PAH! this is what's wrong with America.

Ever notice that immigrant day laborers are taking jobs that "Americans Don't want." because they're the degrading, ditch digging, manual labor work or fast food service.

Ever look at the places immigrants come from? like Africa, South America and South and South East Asia?

Otherwise known as the Third World, there you're born into poverty and you have a good chance of just starving to death because they learn young that no one is there to help, there is no safety net, no welfare system you either move like you have a purpose or you starve to death.

And then they come over here with the third world work ethic. Then they loiter outside of Home Depot at 5 am... hoping someone will hire them. Then work for 12 hours with a 2 hour break. One hour for lunch, and one hour to get ready for their next job serving popcorn at a movie theater or some other 4 hour second shift, before catching 6 hours of sleep and then waking up and starting the whole damn thing over again.

Meanwhile, Americans whine that they NEED FREE HOUSING AND HEALTHCARE! Because America being the strongest Economy in the world has left it's citizens with a sense of entitlement.

Which is why all the labor jobs are being taken up by immigrants and all the manufacturing and phone service jobs are being outsourced.

Oh BTW, I support outsourcing jobs too... The Unions killed our industry.

In short, stop feeling entitled and stop living beyond your means.

~Signed, the professional writer & historian, with two college degrees who also hangs drywall and takes elderly folks shopping.

LordNeuf
Crew


darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:07 pm


Wow- I think we're going to get completely different opinions here....

I consider myself a moderate who can't really be defined by one particular philosophy. I tend to be a social liberal but economic conservative.

I do not think the government should include certain things as essentials. (Certainly the obvious roads and whatnot paid for by taxes), but I disagree with universal health care. I have nothing against the poor and don't feel it's right to ignore their hardships, but I feel the emphasis should be on giving these people jobs that can help them afford food, shelter, etc rather than social welfare programs. I'm rather cynical, but I feel any program large enough to give all Americans a bunch of benefits like healthcare would be enormously corrupt and inefficient. I'm not obsessed with the market, but sometimes it can help competition, as in this case. I am very much against many government handouts

As I possibly want to go into medicine and because my dad is a doctor, healthcare is pretty important to me. I think it's ridiculous that because he works 50-60+ hours per week, he has to give a huge chunk of his income to malpractice tax in order not to get sued (even if every case he reads is flawless his entire life.) I feel that, especially in America, the salaries of doctors would drop incredibly, it would take forever to get even the worst healthcare, and it would be one of the worst mistakes America would make to nationalize healthcare, as many people are obsessed with going to the doctor for stupid things that don't need anything.

I'm totally with Neuf on this incredible sense of entitlement that people have. I'm NOT saying if you're poor that means you don't work (the economy certainly hurts everybody), but far too many people feel they should be given everything when they don't do anything.

I'm for many social liberal things, though. For gay marriage, incredibly for researching alternative fuel/energy, pro-choice (though I feel women should have chosen by the third trimester at least. Except in rare cases, it'd be their own fault if they haven't had an abortion by then), and definitely free religion. We do not live in Jesusland, nor should the Supreme Court ever cite the bible in a court case.

As for diplomacy, I feel we really should increase relations with some other countries, though I don't agree with the US decision to go to war. But, now that we're there, it's going to be hard to get out and I don't have the knowledge to know the best way to go out while causing the least trouble.

There's much more I'm forgetting. xp
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:56 pm


If I explained how the end of WWI was infact the end of Western Civilization and my Darwinistic views of being poor and being rich... I would lose a lot of friends because they're not very popular views.

But... it will entice those among you to come VISIT me when I go camping.

It has to do with problem solving.

Did anyone ever research HOW all those billionaires made their money? where they started from, how exactly they made it big?

John D. Rockefeller started as an assistant accountant for a produce commission. He then went to manage the company and eventually own the commission with a partner. Then they struck oil nearby, and having made his money being a fruit and vegetable dealer, he decided to invest in building a refinery for the oil fields...

Andrew Carnegie started as a bobbin threader when he was 13. He then went on to be a telegraph messenger when was 16 and started working for the railroads when he was 18. His attention to detail and the avid learning of the business helped him make it to a supervisors position and he would then start being involved in company investments. He spent the first half of his life acquiring wealth and acquiring knowledge, without a college degree.

Lets look at the more modern company men.

Bill Gates started as a typical American High School Student who studied his a** off and started learning about computers at his school and got a 1570 on his SAT.

Gateway Computers started manufacturing and shipping PCs out of a barn in Iowa.

Apple Computer was started by 3 guys in a garage.

The point is, many of the really famous self made millionaires were just regular people, who saw an opportunity and dove on it. They were shrewd cost effective businessmen who didn't just piss their money away on material goods.

So this one goes to all the commies, socialists, liberals and entitled people.

IMITATE, INNOVATE, INVENT.

DO SOMETHING!

Figure out a problem with the products on the market, and then make them cheaper and better and more marketable.

I mean, some of us are still in high school, some of us, like me, are the old farts on the web, but it's never too early or too late to try. I have ideas but I'm rather content where I am. I have 3 jobs and 3 degrees and am just waiting for a time when my career takes off as a writer.

I know that not everyone makes it, see : Elisha Gray v Alexander Bell.

LordNeuf
Crew


darkphoenix1247
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:13 pm


eek 3 degrees? I'm impressed! What in?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:20 pm


Quote:
eek 3 degrees? I'm impressed! What in?


Solid State Electronics, History and Journalism

One is obsolete, the other two aren't marketable.

LordNeuf
Crew


Dis Domnu

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:32 pm


LordNeuf
Quote:

In short, stop feeling entitled and stop living beyond your means.

~Signed, the professional writer & historian, with two college degrees who also hangs drywall and takes elderly folks shopping.


I actually live on $150 for three weeks. Can't afford food, or healthcare. Haven't bought new clothing in three years. Made a new jacket, that was it. I'm pretty sure I'm not one of the ones living above their means.

As to the rest: A man who lost all limbs is certainly worse off than a man who only lost two, but can either be said to be well off? Of course not. =P What's the point in being a first world nation if we let all that wealth make its way into the pockets of a few super-rich folks, who then have kids who think that they're entitled to things far beyond anyone else.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:50 pm


Quote:
I actually live on $150 for three weeks. Can't afford food, or healthcare. Haven't bought new clothing in three years. Made a new jacket, that was it. I'm pretty sure I'm not one of the ones living above their means.


No one said you were, I'm talking about the people who feel entitled to something they didn't earn.

As for the guy who can't use his limbs being better off or worse off than the guy who has 2 working limbs...

I'm gonna have to defer to Stephen Hawkins for that analogy.

LordNeuf
Crew


ffdarkangel

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:14 pm


Hawkins is a great example Neuf.

People do take advantage of our current welfare system, and it is only going to get worse if we have national healthcare. I just see more lazy bums out there, not earning anything. Not only that, but this national healthcare is going to come from our taxes. You'll still pay for it, and chances are, taxes are going to get so high that the middle class is going to have a hard time, but they are not entitled to welfare. Then you tax the rich for all their worth. Chances are, those guys are going to get pissed and begin tax evading. The rich guys pay people's paychecks as well. All the social classes will be reduced to one, central class. What does that sound like? Ooh, Communism! But without guns, and we get invaded! Even worse than Communism!

I like guns too. Guns protect you and this country, along with bombs and fighter planes, tanks, the list goes on and on...you can't cut the military. I like them protecting us, and we shouldn't back out now, because chances are, ten years later we are going to be back again. People should also be allowed to own guns with a permit, and we don't need anymore restrictions on them. I don't want to own a gun personally, but I understand the people who want to own a gun. I'm all for their rights.

Gay rights might also be nice too. That seems right to me.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:25 pm


I really feel that if the gov't is taxing us like they are, we ought to be getting something more back. Financing for the arts, healthcare, something...seriously. If I'm paying for huge bailout packages that I would have voted against, they better be paying for something too. I'm not asking for a free ride by any means, but...
those who are uninsured need help one way or another. I need meds to keep myself fertile until I want kids, my friend needs a goiter on her neck lanced regularly because of a thyroid problem...and none of us can afford another $200 a month for insurance. Shoot, I lived on $400 a month for the last three years- after rent, food, etc, where was I supposed to get that? A lot of people live beyond their means, but most of the uninsured people I know don't make enough to begin with.

There is a huge problem in America of people having to declare bankruptcy over medical expenses. The gov't will be paying for it one way or another, you see? But preventative medicine is cheaper.

I read an article recently about Denmark-how they have the highest taxes and the happiest people (according to WHO and others)-but even their entertainment is subsidised. You get together with a few friends to build model trains, the gov't issues a check to help pay for it. Sure, 80% tax, but...people are cared for.

That immigrant working 18 hour days is noble, but I bet they'd give anything for the system that helps them out instead of the other way around.
*continues rambling*

I'm rather socialist in my political thoughts.

dancing-in-the-streets


Desperado de Anarquia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:53 pm


It is great to see people who have opinions on politics, and not just a popular or issue based mind.

I am a Non-Violent Libertarian Socialist with Anarchy-Without-Adjectives operating under a Consensual Democracy as the end product., I wanted to avoid saying this in the OP because I wanted to see what everyone else is without my views affecting how they constructed their responce.

As a Libertarian Socialist I believe in the dismantling all institutions that have a hierarchy. Including the economy, the government, anything, the community will operate under it's on consensual terms.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:14 pm


Quote:
It is great to see people who have opinions on politics, and not just a popular or issue based mind.

I am a Non-Violent Libertarian Socialist with Anarchy-Without-Adjectives operating under a Consensual Democracy as the end product., I wanted to avoid saying this in the OP because I wanted to see what everyone else is without my views affecting how they constructed their responce.

As a Libertarian Socialist I believe in the dismantling all institutions that have a hierarchy. Including the economy, the government, anything, the community will operate under it's on consensual terms.


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Libertarian is far right wing, demanding incredibly small government involvement in daily life...
Socialism is far left, demanding incredibly big government involvement in daily life...

Libertarian Socialist? do you just want to tear everything down so you can have nothing at all, and then everyone will be equal?

Sorry, I'm not getting it.

LordNeuf
Crew


Desperado de Anarquia

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:48 pm


LordNeuf
Quote:
It is great to see people who have opinions on politics, and not just a popular or issue based mind.

I am a Non-Violent Libertarian Socialist with Anarchy-Without-Adjectives operating under a Consensual Democracy as the end product., I wanted to avoid saying this in the OP because I wanted to see what everyone else is without my views affecting how they constructed their responce.

As a Libertarian Socialist I believe in the dismantling all institutions that have a hierarchy. Including the economy, the government, anything, the community will operate under it's on consensual terms.


User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.

Libertarian is far right wing, demanding incredibly small government involvement in daily life...
Socialism is far left, demanding incredibly big government involvement in daily life...

Libertarian Socialist? do you just want to tear everything down so you can have nothing at all, and then everyone will be equal?

Sorry, I'm not getting it.


XD, only in America is Libertarian a far right wing group, in Europe Libertarian Socialist is considered Redundant. And Pretty much, Tear down all institutions and have people live in consentual communities, they would say how they want things ran and then work to a conclusion about how things would run, giving a set way things would be ran though would be contradictory to my politcal ideals since Anarchism is subject to change as the community developes.

Though I must say the community I would want to live in is one where people can contribute to the community if they want, but they don't have to but they won't get things from the community since they choose not to contribute.
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Jewish Gaians Guild

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