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The Mule Of Max

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:47 am


Even though Karn will probably be the only person to post in this topic, I still want to talk to someone about this.

From what I've seen/crunched, there are only 2-3 viable specs:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LMZhxZqIzMgczVdIzsGo - 2/8/51

This spec focuses on getting the necessary talents to put out adequate DPS (which is more important than simple threat generation in the new tanking game) while at the same time grabbing a few more situational talents that I myself prefer to have (Improved Bloodrage, Last Stand). Only one point is in Improved Bloodrage so that I can fully get Toughness so that Armored to the Teeth is at it's full potential.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LZhxZVIbMgczidIzsGo - 2/8/51

This build focuses on getting the maximum amount of DPS possible. Gag Order buffs Shield Slam to maximum DPS, while Last Stand and Improved Bloodrage are dropped to keep the points in Deflection. I've seen some tanks going 0/8/53, preferring to put those two points in Anticipation, which makes no sense to me. Honestly, from who I've talked to, Last Stand isn't even needed currently, as the bosses are very easy to take down.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LVZhZMItrg0zidIzsGo - 5/3/53

Lastly, a specc that drops some DPS for more mitigation. Not particularly needed for the new content, and definitely not something I would use because I like having that extra crit damage (especially for levelling and grinding), but it's something to think about. The argument behind this specc is maximum survivability. Of course, once you're geared enough, this specc is a joke and damage speccs should be taken over this. However, for the undergeared tank trying to get a rush on content before the expansion with his guild, this extra mitigation will allow you to do content you maybe should have a little trouble with.

---

Essentially, try to avoid Imp. Disciplines and Safeguard like they're a vote for McCain. They're horrible talents and won't really serve you much at all.

Some people debate on putting points in Incite, but in my opinion the points are 100% worth it. With Glyph of Revenge and Glyph of Heroic Strike, a simple macro* makes Heroic Striking a simple and essential part of every tank's rotation.

Macro:
/cast revenge
/cast Heroic Strike

(Warning: If revenge isn't off cooldown or not available, this macro will still use Heroic Strike, so be careful and don't spam it.)

P.S. @ Karn: If you took 3/3 Armored to the Teeth right now, with your current armor unbuffed, you'd gain 266 AP. That's 200 more damage on your Shockwave. Trust me, pick it up. razz
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:45 am


I wouldn't go anywhere without Last Stand, personally. Sometimes, no matter what you're doing, things can get hairy for whatever reason and its a great resource to give your healers that extra couple seconds to get on top of things.
The first spec you linked doesn't make a ton of sense, to be honest. If you need that extra bit of crit and Incite to generate enough threat to tank comfortably you really don't know what you're doing, imo. With an almost entirely prot spec (as many points into Deflection as I could manage) I generate more than enough threat, so that on many bossfights I rarely even have to try to generate more threat after about 60% hp, and autoattacking will carry me through the rest of the combat. Not that I do it often, lol
With the buffs to Shield Slam and Revenge post patch, increasing your dps through talents isnt really necessary, and unless you don't plan to be raid tanking at all and just doing heroics or whatever, you should probably go for the more defensive prot talents like Safeguard, for example.
Also, no Gag Order? Wtf? Shield Slam should make up about 40-50% of your threat generation, at least. Its a huge part of my rotation. You're seriously gimping yourself if you don't take it.

No, Safeguard isn't totally relevant at the moment and you could probably skip it. But I don't really feel a need to increase my prot dps, as I can grind, farm and solo whatever I feel like post-patch. I'd rather have it and not need it. I've been in situations where its saved a party member before, and I don't regret having it.

Also, HS is great, and I suggest you get the glyph for it. Even as prot with few, if any, dps talents, you'll still be critting a fair amount and you WILL see a noticable rage return with it. If you're over 50% threat and generating rage at a decent clip, Heroic Strike should be hit whenever the CD is up, until your rage gets under 50%. Its extra threat and extra dps, no one loses.

Karnokoto


The Mule Of Max

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:54 am


Tanking now is less about threat generation and more about DPS. The game has simply changed. You're right about the first specc, though, the lack of Gag Order doesn't make any sense.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:43 pm


it's pretty hard to pull aggro off of anything ATM

was doing 6k dps in naxx on my hunter and i didn't even reach 50% threat and didn't feign once

sooooooooooooooooooo.......

teranoid

Shadowy Gaian


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Aged Gaian

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:11 pm


11/5/45
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:27 pm


shockwave is too awesome to give up, I'm sorry.

I'd spec this: 0/8/53
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LZhxZVIzrgbzidIzsGo

If you have good healers, honestly mitigation is not a huge problem. Spell mitigation IS, imo, b/c spells hit for a god bloody lot on boss fights, and every bit helps. Extra armor is always good though, so go for pure mitigation instead of avoidance. Also, if you want to actually take this spec out for the real world, I highly recommend warbringer....

Now, in LK, I'd go this: 3/10/57, again, more dps, less mitigation
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LcZGxZVIzrgfdidIzsGo


these are all my opinions, and I'll post on this later, class time XP

Bloody Loon


The Mule Of Max

PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:36 pm


I've changed my mind a lot over the past week. The more I test out builds (I've spent about 100g respeccing lately) and the more mathcraft I do, the more I realize what I really like.

My build now:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LZhZVItrtczidIzsGo

My build at 80:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LVMhzbZhZVItrxzzidIzsGo

I honestly think that Puncture isn't really a requirement anymore, and with the new glyphs, Heroic Strike will only ever be used as a rage dump, so the three points spent to improve it simply aren't worth it. Improved Revenge is absolutely amazing, and even though it's not going to be used on raid bosses, it's still extremely useful in 5-mans. I've been considering dropping two points in Shield Specialization for Imp. Spell Reflection, although that's a hard choice to make. I'll have to see how it rolls around in WoTLK and how much imp. Spell Reflection will actually be needed.

Honestly, tanking has changed so much that there are certain things that can easily be dropped and just forgotten about, like Imp. Heroic Strike.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:19 pm


wait, are bosses immune to disarm? Because if they aren't, imp disarm is a free, stacking 10% increase in damage every 40 seconds.

Bloody Loon

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