oh my god

[Vondra]

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

Blaise Pascal challenged his atheist friend...

You believe that after death there is nothing, I beleive that after death there is victory. If you are right, then we both lose. But if I am right however, you still lose and I gain everything.

he also said...

Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.

Basically, until you give God a try, you won't know the truth.

Also... see my signature.

Pascal's Wager is unreliable. It's also outdated. ^.^v

Socrates and Sophist philosophies -might- also be considered outdated and yet they're still taught in college.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

Vondra

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

Blaise Pascal challenged his atheist friend...

You believe that after death there is nothing, I beleive that after death there is victory. If you are right, then we both lose. But if I am right however, you still lose and I gain everything.

he also said...

Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.

Basically, until you give God a try, you won't know the truth.

Also... see my signature.

Pascal's Wager is unreliable. It's also outdated. ^.^v

Socrates and Sophist philosophies -might- also be considered outdated and yet they're still taught in college.

Actually they are still used today. Pascal's Wager has a double standard to it. It takes into account that there is one and only God but doesn't take into account that there are several possibly thousands of Gods and Goddesses and also different religions. To create something that is going to die anyways is futile. Here's the double standard: If God does exist and you believe in him then you're set. If you don't know that there isn't a God and don't believe in him you're screwed. But if God already knew how your life is going to turn up then you're still screwed. No matter how many times you say you belive if a god exists he will know that you don't really believe it. Now however if Pascal's Wager is indeed true then that completely rules out predestination.

As for Socrates' philosophies, those are more reliable and applicable to normal life than Pascal's Wager. Again Pascal's Wager is complete and utter bs.  

[Vondra]

It sounds like a mixture of philosophy and theology. Or, I might be mistaken. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.  

[SloanSage]

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.  

[divineseraph]

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Pascal's reasoning was bad though. It follows for any religion or belief with infinite gain. For example, satanism. By the logic of Pascal, you should worship Satan, for if Satanism is right, there is infinite gain, and if not, zero loss.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.  

[divineseraph]

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.  

[SloanSage]

divineseraph

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

SloanSage

divineseraph

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.

ummm there are more than one type of Satanist. The majority of Satanists are Lavaeyan. And Lavaeyan Satanists don't actually do half the things in the Satanic Bible, it's satire, and it's to scare the Christians. Do a little more research on it before spewing more bs.  

[SloanSage]

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

divineseraph

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.

ummm there are more than one type of Satanist. The majority of Satanists are Lavaeyan. And Lavaeyan Satanists don't actually do half the things in the Satanic Bible, it's satire, and it's to scare the Christians. Do a little more research on it before spewing more bs.

Well, apparently the researchers and the Satanist on the documentary I watched the other were totally wrong then.

I tend to watch the History Channel, and during any holiday week, they have specials on that event or furniture surrounding it. And for the past month they have been doing things that concern Satanists, the origins of Halloween, Demons, the Devil, and things involving central Halloween figures (Frankestien, Dracula... stuff like that). I saw a few concerning Satan and Satanists. But apparently they are wrong. Sorry.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

SloanSage

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

divineseraph

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.

ummm there are more than one type of Satanist. The majority of Satanists are Lavaeyan. And Lavaeyan Satanists don't actually do half the things in the Satanic Bible, it's satire, and it's to scare the Christians. Do a little more research on it before spewing more bs.

Well, apparently the researchers and the Satanist on the documentary I watched the other were totally wrong then.

I tend to watch the History Channel, and during any holiday week, they have specials on that event or furniture surrounding it. And for the past month they have been doing things that concern Satanists, the origins of Halloween, Demons, the Devil, and things involving central Halloween figures (Frankestien, Dracula... stuff like that). I saw a few concerning Satan and Satanists. But apparently they are wrong. Sorry.

Not everything on TV is true even if it's on the History channel. I'm friends with a few Satanists. It's best to ask actual Satanists about their religion rather than to believe what some idiot says on TV.  

[divineseraph]

SloanSage

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

divineseraph

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

The philosophies of Pascal are still relevant to those who are not Christian. I was merely quoting him.

So, because I do not like what you say, even if you were to become some great philosopher, I could say your stuff is BS.

Nope, you have a point, and so does Pascal. Just because yours differs from him and his VERY logical statement, does not make it BS.

You cannot discredit anyone just by a differing opinion. You have to see where they are coming from and why they think that way. You have to be both philosophical and psychological.

Except it's not logical. Just like Divineseraph said it follows religion or belief with infinite gain. The only problem is with religion or beliefs there aren't any infinite possiblities. There are the only possibilities that are given to you. (If there are infinite possibilites or gain then why doesn't Christianity teach about reincarnation?) Now Pascal's Wager talks about Heaven and Hell. Not every religion talks about Heaven or Hell. Most pagans don't believe in the idea of heaven or hell. Neither do Satanists. In fact most Satanists don't even believe in Satan. They use the name to scare or even piss off Christians.

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.

ummm there are more than one type of Satanist. The majority of Satanists are Lavaeyan. And Lavaeyan Satanists don't actually do half the things in the Satanic Bible, it's satire, and it's to scare the Christians. Do a little more research on it before spewing more bs.

Well, apparently the researchers and the Satanist on the documentary I watched the other were totally wrong then.

I tend to watch the History Channel, and during any holiday week, they have specials on that event or furniture surrounding it. And for the past month they have been doing things that concern Satanists, the origins of Halloween, Demons, the Devil, and things involving central Halloween figures (Frankestien, Dracula... stuff like that). I saw a few concerning Satan and Satanists. But apparently they are wrong. Sorry.

The History channel is often fairly inaccurate. I, being a weaponry nerd, know for a fact that blunt weapons are the best choice (minus a crossbow or perhaps axe) against plate armor. And the history channel n00bs decided to "prove" how they were bad at damaging through plate, and hit a skull with, and without plate armor. What they neglected to realize is that, while the skull with the helmet only had a dent in it, compared to being completely smashed, it's the concussive force that passes through the plate, bone and brain tissue that kills you, not an actual seeping wound. Sorry, weapons nerd rant.

Anyway, my last sentence was saying that anyone claiming infinite gain can use Pascal's argument.

The Spaghetti Monster in the Sky will grant eternal life if you believe in him.

Satan will grant eternal life if you believe in him.

Eric Cartman will grant eternal life if you believe in him.

They all have potential infinite gain.  

[Vondra]

I guess it's time for the History Channel to be well... you know... history. xp  

[SloanSage]

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

divineseraph

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.

ummm there are more than one type of Satanist. The majority of Satanists are Lavaeyan. And Lavaeyan Satanists don't actually do half the things in the Satanic Bible, it's satire, and it's to scare the Christians. Do a little more research on it before spewing more bs.

Well, apparently the researchers and the Satanist on the documentary I watched the other were totally wrong then.

I tend to watch the History Channel, and during any holiday week, they have specials on that event or furniture surrounding it. And for the past month they have been doing things that concern Satanists, the origins of Halloween, Demons, the Devil, and things involving central Halloween figures (Frankestien, Dracula... stuff like that). I saw a few concerning Satan and Satanists. But apparently they are wrong. Sorry.

Not everything on TV is true even if it's on the History channel. I'm friends with a few Satanists. It's best to ask actual Satanists about their religion rather than to believe what some idiot says on TV.

I don't necessarily take EVERYTHING they say, but I kin of compare what they do on the History Channel, the History International Channel (which tends to be fuller of different things... such as not always going with the trends in what they research and show at certain times), as well as numerous Discovery Channel type channels. so, it is not really only the History Channel I get my info from, I get it from other places too. and usually if you take five or six different types of a religion and put them against one another in a debate, you will still have a commonality factor. Such as Christians = Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Calvinist, catholic = Christ was a living figure and Savior of all... so... Satanism = different sects = Satan is there and cool.

Sorry, but that is the way logic has me thinking.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

SloanSage

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

Dark Angel Rai

SloanSage

divineseraph

It was more of heaven versus nothingness.

If you believe in God and are right, you gain infinity. If you are wrong, you lose nothing since you're just gone. If you don't believe and are wrong, you lose everything. If you are right, you gain nothing since you're still gone.

The real failing in this reasoning is realizing that every religion and it's uncle, even if it's contradictory to the others, has infinite gain as a promise. For me, a Universalist, this doesn't mean any harm. But to a pure christian or wiccan or satanist, it's a serious flaw in the argument.

Thank you for rephrasing that, but, I am confused by your last two lines. I know what a universalist is (George MacDonald was one and you can see his beliefs in his gothic stories...)

And really, you are not a real Satanist if you don't believe in Satan (cause you really can't be a real Christian and not believe in Christ... the name kind-of says it all...). And Satanists who do not believe in Hell or God are also not true to the religion, because even Satan and demons know God exists, and that there is a place called Hell. They have just chosen to worship the dark one.

ummm there are more than one type of Satanist. The majority of Satanists are Lavaeyan. And Lavaeyan Satanists don't actually do half the things in the Satanic Bible, it's satire, and it's to scare the Christians. Do a little more research on it before spewing more bs.

Well, apparently the researchers and the Satanist on the documentary I watched the other were totally wrong then.

I tend to watch the History Channel, and during any holiday week, they have specials on that event or furniture surrounding it. And for the past month they have been doing things that concern Satanists, the origins of Halloween, Demons, the Devil, and things involving central Halloween figures (Frankestien, Dracula... stuff like that). I saw a few concerning Satan and Satanists. But apparently they are wrong. Sorry.

Not everything on TV is true even if it's on the History channel. I'm friends with a few Satanists. It's best to ask actual Satanists about their religion rather than to believe what some idiot says on TV.

I don't necessarily take EVERYTHING they say, but I kin of compare what they do on the History Channel, the History International Channel (which tends to be fuller of different things... such as not always going with the trends in what they research and show at certain times), as well as numerous Discovery Channel type channels. so, it is not really only the History Channel I get my info from, I get it from other places too. and usually if you take five or six different types of a religion and put them against one another in a debate, you will still have a commonality factor. Such as Christians = Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Calvinist, catholic = Christ was a living figure and Savior of all... so... Satanism = different sects = Satan is there and cool.

Sorry, but that is the way logic has me thinking.

Satan is more of a figure to scare people. Nothing more and nothing less. He's a good scare tactic but is very laughable. His current form was taken from either the Greek God Pan or Cerunnos who is Celtic I believe. But I can also say Christianity=mixture of pagan beliefs with Jewish beliefs. Paganism=Original religion that started the whole religion thing.