Welcome to Gaia! ::

First off, I want to acknowledge that all of this is going to sound pretty "baby christian" like in my thinking...but I have been a devout follower of Christ for a good seven years now and this isnt the first time these thoughts have come to mind, but now in a much more disturbing and curious manner:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6


Pretty well known verse, even amoungst non-belivers, right? And I have believed it to be true since my conversion, and still do pretty much even in my current time of struggle with faith and what not.

But if Jesus is (and has ALWAYS been, and always will be) the only way to heaven, where does that leave those who passionatley tried to serve and love God in the old testament? For many years I've always thought "well they belived in Gods promise of a coming messiah, so they were probably saved by that".

But if they didnt have the holy spirit of Jesus LIVING in them and have that ultimate sacrifice to atone for their sins...how could they have possibly went to heaven? What about those who loved and served God BEFORE they even knew of such prophecies or promisies? Perhaps they went to heaven if they "tried" to follow the ten commandments...then where does this leave Jesus statment of being that "NO ONE" comes to the father "BUT THROUGH ME"? And what about Elijah? Elijah wasnt saved by Jesus, but it says in 2 Kings 2:11 "As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind."

On another note regarding to John 14:6....where does that leave those who never hear the gospel, or are too young/mentally challenged to understand? some say they would be pardoned, but then Jesus would be a liar for saying "No one comes to the father BUT through " and Jesus never sinned so he cant be lying can he?

This esspecially becomes disturbing when you think about the Pre-christ days (B.C. obviously) in other nations that had no idea of a coming messiah or who Jesus was to accept him...but had NOT EVEN A CLUE of the God of the jews, or maybe even the jews for that matter. And possibly alot of jews might not have known before the old testament and the religion of judaism was even established.


So is it "just" to say (since I belive God is just, even beyond the standards we hold because he is beyond us and HAS to be) that people, whether they lived in B.C. or A.D. that had NO knowledge of Christ or ever even had a possible way of ever knowing(secluded tribes, mentally challenged, those too young to understand, etc) are sent to eternal torture and seperation from their loving creator?

If God really wanted his creations to spend eternity with him in paradise, wouldnt it be fair that he allow the knowledge of His plan for salvation across the board both in B.C. and A.D., locationaly, and agewise?

Im not trying to doubt God or his mindset that is beyond us....I realize that for him to be GOD he MUST have a mindset and understanding and justice far greater and suprasing than we can concieve...but Im just trying to ask some honest questions.

Before Christ came, people who had FAITH in God (note faith in God is different than following set rules as the pharisees always did) would go to a place called "upper sheol." Those who rejected God by choice or ignorance went to a place called "sheol," which we call "hell." Hell is like prison, where the dead await the Great White Throne Judgement.

As Yirah said, the blood of animals covered the sins for people BC. However, the sin was still there; the effect was only temporary. This is why the faithful (eg Moses, Elijah, Enoch, etc) went to "upper sheol" and not to Heaven, which is the actual Presence of the Living God.

After Jesus paid the full price for sin for all mankind eternally (He was able to do this because Jesus is fully man and fully God), the people in "upper sheol" could finally gain access into Heaven. Also, most Christians believe that Jesus Christ preached the good news to those in hell, and I'm guessing many chose to repent and thus were able to also gain access into Heaven. After this point, "upper sheol" (also called "paradise") was locked, because it is now superfluous since believers can now go straight to Heaven upon death. This is because Jesus' sacrificial blood doesn't cover sin; it WASHES IT AWAY!! Hallelujah!

For those who are too young or mentally unstable: they had no concept of choice, thus I personally believe they will be given the ability to choose whether or not to believe in God. Some believe these people go straight to Heaven, but I do not because I believe that is forcing a choice upon them. I believe it is similar for those who have never heard of Jesus. God, after all, is a merciful and just God. I know He'll make the right decision. He's perfect and omniscient, too, after all! biggrin

Um, as for you question regarding the olden days. I hope I understood your question correctly, if not let me know:

"At the moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people." -Matthew 27:51

This verse tells us that after Jesus died he pretty much set the captives free from the 1st hell which I believe is called Hades. Meaning people like Moses, Noah, etc went with Jesus to Heaven.

As for you question about Elijah, he did not die; instead he was given special access to heaven. I believe Melchizedek and one other person did not recieve death but were granted access to heaven. It speaks of it in the verse you quoted.

For the question on what if somebody doesn't hear the gospel can be found in Romans:

"God will give to each person according to what he has done." To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentiles; but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favortism All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all whjo sin under the law will be judged by the law. For i is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sighjt, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) - Romans 2:6-16

What this long verse is pretty much saying is that people who haven't heard of Jesus still have their conscience. Remember as kids we were innocent. Although we sinned still of course, we were innocent. That's why some people refer to accepting Christ as going back to childhood or something like that. Also, personally, I trully believe God will not give anybody the bad end of the stick. It's kind of hard to go through a day in America without hearing something about Jesus once. As for other nations, churches send missionaries to these places in order for people to hear the Gospel so I really don't think their is a person in this world who can go their entire lifetime without hearing something about Christ. But that's just my personal opinion.

Oooh I smell superiority! Get off your moral and biblical high horses ok? Jesus was a Jew, and I somehow don't think he'd let his people suffer in the magical land of Hell because they held firm to their ways while his supposed ones are newer. Its stupid. It really is. Jesus is not the only way to salvation. Never was. Stop thinking you are all that and a bag of shrimp crisps. Ok?

That's quite the claim. But claims without any kind of support is simply irrelevant to the discussion. And I don't think people are feeling superior because they believe in God. Even the Pharisees who were the teachers of His laws were frowned upon.

I'd like to add something that I don't think has been mentioned, or at least not put this exact way.
God doesn't send people to Hell because they haven't had faith in the Christ. He sends them to Hell because they've broken his law. Therefore, it is just that God would hold anyone that hasn't heard the good news of Jesus Christ to the same standard.

Well, you're kinda in a Christian guild... xd