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 Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:46 am
Has anybody else read Erasmas' latest thread in the ED? I think it's extremely well-written and hits the nail on the head about how I feel about many Pro-Choicers I've met, and what the debate is like from my perspective. It's really the first time I've seen someone go in-depth about the Pro-Life experience on Gaia.
I'm posting this to ask what the Pro-Choicers here think about what he said. I don't know how many of you go into his threads, or even post in the ED much, but I think it would be interesting to get the opinion of the posters here.
I would've posted this on the main forum, but then I didn't want to exclude the Pro-Choicers, so that's why I posted it here.
To Pro-Lifers: what do you think about what he said?
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:17 am
I thought it was arrogant and judgemental. Don't get me wrong, I think Eras can be pretty eloquent and even make a good point when he puts his mind to it - but everything he says about pro-choicers, I could just as easily say about pro-lifers. I replied to his thread on page two, although I don't think he ever addressed it.
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Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:18 am
tl;dr. It was too angry, couldn't stomach all of it; And I think it's a mistake to make a thread essentially bashing Pro-Choicers, rather than arguing against their stance.
Also, I suspect you are yet another Erasmus puppet, considering that this is your only post in the entire guild.
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:53 am
@fran salaska: It was a little angry, but I think it was representative of how a lot of pro-lifers feel. I don't think any of his comments could only apply to pro-choicers, but I don't think because you could make similar criticisms for some pro-lifers that it cancels out the relevance of those criticisms. I think it was one of the most honest attempts to explain our frustration and beliefs about abortion and the debate itself I've ever seen.
@I.Am: Uh, dude? Direct your attention to the Post Your Pictures! thread, page 5. In fact, you commented on my a**. xp
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:44 pm
Oh, hey, sorry about that then. Just seems unusual for someone to be so praising of him, and he has a lot of alts; He gets banned a lot, it seems.
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:36 pm
I can't find the thread, does anyone have a link? I found a few topics that have to do with abortion (none with very good OPs), but nothing by him.
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:15 pm
@I.Am: No problem. I've seen threads around here addressing other threads, and I really liked his thread, but I wanted to see what you guys thought about it, since he addressed pro-choicers and called it the pro-life manifesto
WatersMoon: I can't find it either. I think it got deleted, which sucks.
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:03 am
Petes BBQ WatersMoon: I can't find it either. I think it got deleted, which sucks. Always the worry with a Pro-Life thread in the ED. Controversial topics far too often degrade into flame wars and get recycled. *sigh* I looked in the Recycle Bin (though not too terribly long) and didn't see it. It's not often that a thread gets outright deleted, so it logically should be somewhere in there. If I get too bored, I might do a more thorough search later. I would be interested to see what he wrote.
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:40 am
I couldn't find them in the Recycle Bin, I guess they are gone from the public eye on Gaia. But I did find two threads by Eramas (V and BD) by (advanced) searching Google, that still exist in Google's Cache, on Called Pro-choicers: You Know Better (Pro-life Manifesto) and one that is referenced in that thread called Pro-choicers: Turn the mirror on yourself.
Do either of those happen to be the thread you are talking about?
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:57 am
WatersMoon110 I couldn't find them in the Recycle Bin, I guess they are gone from the public eye on Gaia. But I did find two threads by Eramas (V and BD) by (advanced) searching Google, that still exist in Google's Cache, on Called Pro-choicers: You Know Better (Pro-life Manifesto) and one that is referenced in that thread called Pro-choicers: Turn the mirror on yourself. Do either of those happen to be the thread you are talking about? Even if they aren't I imagine that they are both similar to the post in question. You asked for Pro-Choice opinions on the post, and I'm (more than) willing to give you mine. Pro-Life Manifesto Whenever I get into debates with pro-choicers, I always think to myself: you know why pro-lifers hate abortion. You know why I say women should either double-down on protection, or abstain from sex until a more advantageous occasion. You know why some of us call women who have abortions murderers. You know why we call fetuses "babies" and "unborn children". You know why most of us would make an exception for rape and life-or-death circumstances. You know why we don't view abortion solely as a legal issue, or an issue of rights, or an issue of autonomy, or an issue of bodily domain. You know why we have protests, days of silent solidarity, why some of us get so consumed that we become extremists. Pro-Life Manifesto When I asked in that thread why haven't you (the collective "you" ) wound up with a bunch of kids, on welfare, or with numerous abortions on your belt, I was asking because the answer is, you know better. All this stuff about contraceptive failure rates, possibility of rape, financial reasons, and whatever you come up with to make people feel good about supporting abortion, is just rhetoric so you don't look heartless and cruel and non-sympathetic. I feel that he rather presupposes that all Pro-Choicers are like the gaggle that frequent the ED (the worst of whom, I feel, create a rather bad opinion of Pro-Choicers), but I suppose that he is addressing his audience. I certainly wouldn't have seen this post had my interest not been sparked in here. To me his point seems to boil down to a few arguments (that I rather disagree with): "women who get unintentionally pregnant don't use (enough) contraceptive methods, and so are stupid"* "people who debate on the Pro-Choice side in the ED are smarter than those women" "abortion should not be allowed because women (couples) knew the risk before they had sex" (Which, from what I've seen of his debating, appears to be one of his main points, but isn't really the main topic of this thread/OP - as I feel he focuses on the presumed intelligence of ED Pro-Choicers over women considering abortion) Mostly though, I just think that he sounds tired of debating abortion in the ED. *Though, I will admit, I do think that women/couples that don't want to get pregnant, but have unprotected sex are acting stupidly. And I worry that Abstinence Only Sex Education is leading more teens to do this, which I feel is horribly stupid (the teen birth rate rose for the first time in 14 years after the Federal Government started endorsing Abstinence Only Sex Ed).
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