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 Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:04 am
I tend to like complex motivation such that the villain clearly thinks themselves the hero, but occasionally simple evil like the Joker in the Dark Knight is cool if done well.
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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:35 am
I agree, a villain who thinks himself the hero is really the best, in my opinion. Darth Vader (before the awful prequels) was a truly great villain. I don't believe he thought of himself as evil. Harsh, certainly, but he lived in a harsh world, a world constantly threatened by chaos. Vader saw himself standing against that chaos and anarchy. To him, the Empire represented Order, and anything that threatened that order (say, a Rebel Alliance) had to be crushed, through any means possible. The ends justify the means, for the good of the Empire.
All this was shattered, of course, when Lucas revealed the whiny teenager and his mushy love story to the picture. The cold figure standing between the people and utter chaos is suddenly replaced by a mopey, impatient brat, intent upon making the galaxy suffer for the deaths of his mommy and (older, mother-figure) wife. What a shallow motivation that is.
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Artemesia_of_Persia Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:20 am
Vlad_the_Kinain I agree, a villain who thinks himself the hero is really the best, in my opinion. Darth Vader (before the awful prequels) was a truly great villain. I don't believe he thought of himself as evil. Harsh, certainly, but he lived in a harsh world, a world constantly threatened by chaos. Vader saw himself standing against that chaos and anarchy. To him, the Empire represented Order, and anything that threatened that order (say, a Rebel Alliance) had to be crushed, through any means possible. The ends justify the means, for the good of the Empire. All this was shattered, of course, when Lucas revealed the whiny teenager and his mushy love story to the picture. The cold figure standing between the people and utter chaos is suddenly replaced by a mopey, impatient brat, intent upon making the galaxy suffer for the deaths of his mommy and (older, mother-figure) wife. What a shallow motivation that is. That's what I love about the hunter in Serenity. It was beautiful and sad that he was fighting for a better world in which he did not believe himself fit to live. It was worse to know that the Empire he was fighting for wasn't worthy of that faith.
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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:58 am
I think that's part of the reason Vader is one of my favorite villains. His goal is noble. His ends aren't, and the Empire he's serving certainly isn't. Unfortunately, it's the "only game in town," as far as he knows. The Rebellion isn't an option -- they represent chaos to him, not the beginnings of a new order (and the books that came out starting in the mid-90s illustrate the chaos that followed the fall of the Empire, so Vader was right, in the short run).
Also remember that Vader's ultimate goal is to overthrow the Emperor and rule the Empire with Luke. Together, they would end tyranny and bring order to the galaxy.
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Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:30 pm
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:25 am
NecHocNecIllud I just saw this thing on Batman villains. does anyone have an opinion? http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27479073.html I'm a little surprised that The Riddler didn't make it onto that list; I always rather liked him. I've heard a rumour that they were talking to Johnny Depp to play him in the next movie, and Philip Seymour Hoffman to be the Penguin.
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:49 am
Litharriel NecHocNecIllud I just saw this thing on Batman villains. does anyone have an opinion? http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27479073.html I'm a little surprised that The Riddler didn't make it onto that list; I always rather liked him. I've heard a rumour that they were talking to Johnny Depp to play him in the next movie, and Philip Seymour Hoffman to be the Penguin. i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler.
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:21 pm
Gwion Vaughn Litharriel NecHocNecIllud I just saw this thing on Batman villains. does anyone have an opinion? http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27479073.html I'm a little surprised that The Riddler didn't make it onto that list; I always rather liked him. I've heard a rumour that they were talking to Johnny Depp to play him in the next movie, and Philip Seymour Hoffman to be the Penguin. i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler. *nods* I'm looking foreward to it, if it is true. I tend to like Depp's movies (and what I've seen Hoffman in has been pretty good too). At first I wasn't sure about him in the role (something just didn't feel right about it), but then I said the same about Ledger as the Joker, and he turned out to be completely fan-smegging-tastic, imo...
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:58 pm
Litharriel Gwion Vaughn Litharriel NecHocNecIllud I just saw this thing on Batman villains. does anyone have an opinion? http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27479073.html I'm a little surprised that The Riddler didn't make it onto that list; I always rather liked him. I've heard a rumour that they were talking to Johnny Depp to play him in the next movie, and Philip Seymour Hoffman to be the Penguin. i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler. *nods* I'm looking foreward to it, if it is true. I tend to like Depp's movies (and what I've seen Hoffman in has been pretty good too). At first I wasn't sure about him in the role (something just didn't feel right about it), but then I said the same about Ledger as the Joker, and he turned out to be completely fan-smegging-tastic, imo... I have a lot of faith in hoffman's ability to capture diverse characters. (Compare Read Dragon to Capote, for example.) I'm not a big Penguin fan, but I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt, given how impressive the last two were.
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:13 am
NecHocNecIllud Litharriel Gwion Vaughn Litharriel NecHocNecIllud I just saw this thing on Batman villains. does anyone have an opinion? http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27479073.html I'm a little surprised that The Riddler didn't make it onto that list; I always rather liked him. I've heard a rumour that they were talking to Johnny Depp to play him in the next movie, and Philip Seymour Hoffman to be the Penguin. i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler. *nods* I'm looking foreward to it, if it is true. I tend to like Depp's movies (and what I've seen Hoffman in has been pretty good too). At first I wasn't sure about him in the role (something just didn't feel right about it), but then I said the same about Ledger as the Joker, and he turned out to be completely fan-smegging-tastic, imo... I have a lot of faith in hoffman's ability to capture diverse characters. (Compare Read Dragon to Capote, for example.) I'm not a big Penguin fan, but I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt, given how impressive the last two were. Fully agreed, there. I haven't seen Capote yet, but it's on my Amazon Wish List. (The bloody thing's only a penny used, so I don't know why I haven't ordered it yet... Out of curiosity, how does it compare to Infamous, if you've seen it?) Ditto on not being a huge Penguin fan, but, I also agree that after the first two-- particularly the reinvention of the Joker--they definitely deserve a little faith. I did love his performance in Red Dragon. Which swings us toward one of my favourite villains of all time: Lecter! twisted There are few things I like better than a villain who truly gives good brain.
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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:29 pm
Litharriel NecHocNecIllud Litharriel Gwion Vaughn Litharriel NecHocNecIllud I just saw this thing on Batman villains. does anyone have an opinion? http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/27479073.html I'm a little surprised that The Riddler didn't make it onto that list; I always rather liked him. I've heard a rumour that they were talking to Johnny Depp to play him in the next movie, and Philip Seymour Hoffman to be the Penguin. i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler. *nods* I'm looking foreward to it, if it is true. I tend to like Depp's movies (and what I've seen Hoffman in has been pretty good too). At first I wasn't sure about him in the role (something just didn't feel right about it), but then I said the same about Ledger as the Joker, and he turned out to be completely fan-smegging-tastic, imo... I have a lot of faith in hoffman's ability to capture diverse characters. (Compare Read Dragon to Capote, for example.) I'm not a big Penguin fan, but I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt, given how impressive the last two were. Fully agreed, there. I haven't seen Capote yet, but it's on my Amazon Wish List. (The bloody thing's only a penny used, so I don't know why I haven't ordered it yet... Out of curiosity, how does it compare to Infamous, if you've seen it?) Ditto on not being a huge Penguin fan, but, I also agree that after the first two-- particularly the reinvention of the Joker--they definitely deserve a little faith. I did love his performance in Red Dragon. Which swings us toward one of my favourite villains of all time: Lecter! twisted There are few things I like better than a villain who truly gives good brain. Alas, I missed Infamous. I do love Lechter. A shame Hannibal Rising was such a botch job.
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:25 am
NecHocNecIllud Litharriel NecHocNecIllud Litharriel Gwion Vaughn i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler. *nods* I'm looking foreward to it, if it is true. I tend to like Depp's movies (and what I've seen Hoffman in has been pretty good too). At first I wasn't sure about him in the role (something just didn't feel right about it), but then I said the same about Ledger as the Joker, and he turned out to be completely fan-smegging-tastic, imo... I have a lot of faith in hoffman's ability to capture diverse characters. (Compare Read Dragon to Capote, for example.) I'm not a big Penguin fan, but I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt, given how impressive the last two were. Fully agreed, there. I haven't seen Capote yet, but it's on my Amazon Wish List. (The bloody thing's only a penny used, so I don't know why I haven't ordered it yet... Out of curiosity, how does it compare to Infamous, if you've seen it?) Ditto on not being a huge Penguin fan, but, I also agree that after the first two-- particularly the reinvention of the Joker--they definitely deserve a little faith. I did love his performance in Red Dragon. Which swings us toward one of my favourite villains of all time: Lecter! twisted There are few things I like better than a villain who truly gives good brain. Alas, I missed Infamous. I do love Lechter. A shame Hannibal Rising was such a botch job. *nods* True, that one could've been done better. I wasn't altogether pleased with Hannibal, either, as a movie... It was so frustrating that they changed the ending in the hopes of luring Foster back into the role, then didn't change it back even though she refused! Further proof that the book is almost always better. stare
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Artemesia_of_Persia Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:05 pm
Litharriel NecHocNecIllud Litharriel NecHocNecIllud Litharriel Gwion Vaughn i have heard those rumors too. I'd like to see the Riddler. *nods* I'm looking foreward to it, if it is true. I tend to like Depp's movies (and what I've seen Hoffman in has been pretty good too). At first I wasn't sure about him in the role (something just didn't feel right about it), but then I said the same about Ledger as the Joker, and he turned out to be completely fan-smegging-tastic, imo... I have a lot of faith in hoffman's ability to capture diverse characters. (Compare Read Dragon to Capote, for example.) I'm not a big Penguin fan, but I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt, given how impressive the last two were. Fully agreed, there. I haven't seen Capote yet, but it's on my Amazon Wish List. (The bloody thing's only a penny used, so I don't know why I haven't ordered it yet... Out of curiosity, how does it compare to Infamous, if you've seen it?) Ditto on not being a huge Penguin fan, but, I also agree that after the first two-- particularly the reinvention of the Joker--they definitely deserve a little faith. I did love his performance in Red Dragon. Which swings us toward one of my favourite villains of all time: Lecter! twisted There are few things I like better than a villain who truly gives good brain. Alas, I missed Infamous. I do love Lechter. A shame Hannibal Rising was such a botch job. *nods* True, that one could've been done better. I wasn't altogether pleased with Hannibal, either, as a movie... It was so frustrating that they changed the ending in the hopes of luring Foster back into the role, then didn't change it back even though she refused! Further proof that the book is almost always better. stare Silly studios. Don't get me started on the riuined ending on I Am Legend.
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Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:17 pm
Artemesia_of_Persia Litharriel NecHocNecIllud Litharriel NecHocNecIllud I have a lot of faith in hoffman's ability to capture diverse characters. (Compare Read Dragon to Capote, for example.) I'm not a big Penguin fan, but I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt, given how impressive the last two were. Fully agreed, there. I haven't seen Capote yet, but it's on my Amazon Wish List. (The bloody thing's only a penny used, so I don't know why I haven't ordered it yet... Out of curiosity, how does it compare to Infamous, if you've seen it?) Ditto on not being a huge Penguin fan, but, I also agree that after the first two-- particularly the reinvention of the Joker--they definitely deserve a little faith. I did love his performance in Red Dragon. Which swings us toward one of my favourite villains of all time: Lecter! twisted There are few things I like better than a villain who truly gives good brain. Alas, I missed Infamous. I do love Lechter. A shame Hannibal Rising was such a botch job. *nods* True, that one could've been done better. I wasn't altogether pleased with Hannibal, either, as a movie... It was so frustrating that they changed the ending in the hopes of luring Foster back into the role, then didn't change it back even though she refused! Further proof that the book is almost always better. stare Silly studios. Don't get me started on the riuined ending on I Am Legend. Now, that's one I keep meaning to read but haven't gotten to, yet, though I do know enough about the story to have an idea of what you're talking about. 3nodding On the subject of screwing up the endings, I'm a little worried for the Watchmen... Do you think they had the guts to stick with it?
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