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 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:31 pm
I'm not entirely sure this is the correct place for this...
But I am wondering how people feel about the Israel/Palestine issues? I've heard a whole lot of American news about it, but I am interested in knowing how people more directly affected by it feel.
In the book The Chosen, there is a major discussion about whether or not the formation of Israel was a wise decision (this puts it delicately-in the book it was major)...?
Just curious.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:05 am
How do I feel about the Israel-Palestinian conflict? I think it sucks. I want it to be over. I want the Palestinians to stop firing rockets. I want Israel to stop building new settlements. I want them to make peace and end this ridiculously long conflict one and for all.
On the issue of Israel's creation, yes it was a good move. Look at how much the country has achieved in the fields of technology and science. And after 2000 years of being screwed with it was obvious we needed a homeland.
On a personal note, had it not been for the existence of Israel, I'd have been born in some shoddy Soviet hospital and would have had to spend the first few years of my life in early Yeltsin-era Russia (i.e. anarchy and ultra-antisemitism) until Australia would finally let my family immigrate.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:43 am
Hmm... This may take a while, so brace yourself.
I just got back from a long stint in Israel, as some of you might have picked up. I made a friend out there, a really nice old guy called Reuven. He was a tank driver in the Yom Kippur War AND the Six Day War. In the Yom Kippur war, he was dragged from his home in the middle of prayer, given a gun and placed in a tank. He went out to stop the Egyptian advance. His tank was one of few that made it out in one piece. He took me to the site. There were burnt out tanks and chassis of trucks lying in the sand. No one had bothered to move.
He told me later on that "The Arab", out of greed, had killed or maimed half of his friends, and put some of them in mental hospitals. He got out lightly. He only wakes up screaming some times...
The truth is Israel gives Arabic immigrants a home, benefits, health care, everyhting you could want at a basic level. We build whole towns for them in Israel, yet they always want more. He told me he had met Arabs who owned lovely a house, better than his, and had several wives and children on generous benefits. He didnt work. Yet he still talked of Israel, who'd given him all of this, as the evil Invader.
On the other hand, I met an Israeli Arab. Great guy. He's called Muhammad. He was very pro-Israel. He was pro-Everything, actaully. Very nice guy. He was so very ingnorant, though. He believed that Chassidics only married for children, and they often attack women who believed in equality. I never once met a Chassidic man who I didn't like, or mistreated women. This belief was caused by propoganda spread into his community in East Jerusalem. And because he was born in Israel, he is treated with disgust in Egypt and Jordan, though he is Muslim.
I believe there will be peace. The officials will agree on something, and Israel, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon will open their borders to each other. Iran.... will take a bit longer. But America will help us out with that.
However.... People are different. There will always be hatred of Israel among those Arabs that do not accept others. And it is impossible to control the minds of people. So saying there will be Peace in the Middle East is, I'm afraid, inconceivable. cry
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:53 am
Quick everyone! Into the tar-baby!
The Arab Israeli conflict is not easily resolved, not easily solved, and not easily won.
every time something silly happens, it makes me think of the butter war by Dr Seuss. Two people, one land, divided by a wall in a never ending arms race, and the only difference is that one side butters the top of their toast, the other side butters the bottom.
That's what I think of the Israeli-Arab conflict.
Two people fighting over their lifestyle, and how to worship the same God differently.
In the unlikely event that Jerusalem is hit by a massive air strike, or HASHEM Forbid, a nuclear attack. The people left would still be fighting over their sacred craters.
The main cause of the whole thing is change. People in general are afraid of change, some people don't want to go into a brave new world, they will fight unto the death to prevent it.
And that's what's happening.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:22 am
Hands up people afraid of the truth:
*Hands shoot up*
Hands up people who know what's going to happen next:
*Crcket sounds. Tumbleweed blows through.*
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:17 pm
I'll tell the truth, I don't really support either side. I think the American media demonizes Palestine and sets Israel on a pedestal.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:22 pm
kingpinsqeezels I'll tell the truth, I don't really support either side. I think the American media demonizes Palestine and sets Israel on a pedestal. Then of course came the Hezbollah rocket attacks. Better known as the ooey gooey jewey kablooey. Where the press turned against Israel, showing that they didn't appreciate the fact that Israel would respond to a rocket attack, that fired 300 rockets, hit 6 cities and killed 12 people, with an air strike from 6 planes that carried 12 bombs and killed 300 people. I dunno but it sounded fair to me, but the rest of the world didn't see it that way. Truth be told the court of public opinion is a fickle mistress. I still like the report of a Hezbollah rocket that actually made it to a small farming community in Palestine and blew up in a field. The Palestinians reactions were "It's all good, we know why you're shooting rockets, and we know you're sorry for hitting us when you meant to hit Israel, better luck next time." And somehow... Israel was the bad guy on that one.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:49 pm
Hmm.... Well, I'm torn on this issue. First, I'd like to make it very clear that I love Israel. I want to go there sometime, and I am in no way saying that people who live there should just go away.
But... I don't know about the creation of Israel in the first place. I totally understand that the world was stupid and wouldn't give the Jews anywhere to go. I think there does need to be some place that is primarily Jewish in the world that everybody can just go to and be without regard to not having days off of work/school, and where the majority of people are Jewish. However, I disagree with kicking a bunch of people who were already living there out. Throughout history, it's been this miserable, torturous cycle of "HEY! GET OUT OF MY HOLY LAND!" As much as I wish everybody could hold hands and sing, that's never going to happen in the conceivable future.
I don't think Israel should be eliminated now. Very strongly so, in fact. People have been fighting their **** off to keep what is theirs, and while I may disagree with how they got it, it doesn't change the fact that Israel, for better or worse depending on country and religion, isn't a primarily Arab country. The UN has always had something against Israel (or at least the vast majority of the time), and I feel it would be for nothing if that were given up now.
This is all just opinionated, though; I'm not some knowledgeable scholar on the exact and complete conditions of Israel's creation and history.
I also love my Israeli friends and don't want anything to happen to them, as the incredible violence worries me every day.
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darkphoenix1247 Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:54 pm
And now, music.
My father once told this to me
Boston's gritty history
Another ruthless battle
In a useless holy war
Handed down discrepancies
And tensions that'll never ease
One early afternoon on Broad Street
It blew up down there for sure
Broad Street's just not broad enough
And you just don't love God enough
And if that isn't odd enough
We've taken too much crap
You've pushed us round the sod enough
We've scrapped and rapped and jawed enough
Poked, provoked and prod enough
Somethings gonna snap
Riot down on Broad Street
Hand me a brick, a stick, a picket
A pile, of rocks or cobblestones
Riot down on Broad Street
And if I'm going down
Then, I'm not going down alone
I wont go down alone
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:07 pm
Isreal is defending itself. Almost everything they do is in reaction to something done to them.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:14 pm
Callamandes Isreal is defending itself. Almost everything they do is in reaction to something done to them. This is true... If the Arabs put their guns down, the Israeli's put their guns down, everyone's happy. If Israel puts their guns down... the Arab nations push them into the Mediterranean. Terrorists hide behind their citizens trying to provoke outrage when the Israelis fight back, while Israeli soldiers do what they can to make sure no one dies unnecessarily. 
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:07 pm
Callamandes Isreal is defending itself. Almost everything they do is in reaction to something done to them. I don't recommend you being that pro-Israel in the company of fellow communists. You'd get crucified. eek
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:33 pm
DanskiWolf Callamandes Isreal is defending itself. Almost everything they do is in reaction to something done to them. I don't recommend you being that pro-Israel in the company of fellow communists. You'd get crucified. eek And I'm staying out of the whole Communist/Zionist discussion.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:33 pm
I just don't see how it's fair. Many more Palestinians have died than Israelis. I understand Palestine does some crazy bad stuff, but like I said...it's not like I support their cause that much. It's just that Israel is the one that's bulldozing villages and treating Palestinians like criminals. I've never personally crossed the border, but I know how those young soldiers can act.
And I really don't like that picture. No one is a saint during warfare.
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Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:44 pm
kingpinsqeezels And I really don't like that picture. No one is a saint during warfare. No... there's no such thing as an atheist in combat situation. But we will discuss this on a different thread, I've got to many arguments at this moment.
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