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Matasoga
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:43 am


The classic villain...Sometimes compelling, sometimes complex, some times simple, but always adversarial and, if done correctly, eternally memorable. A villain, if made the most of, can be an ineffable work of art that can (and often does, in films, particularly) outlive its own death.
Who, in your opinion, was the greatest villain of all time? Who were some of the runner ups? What makes a villain great and what kind of villain would you like to see more of?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:01 am


Ooh. The greatest villain that comes to mind would have to be Voldemort, if only because he's fun to mock in comics.

And Oogie Boogie, from the Nightmare Before Christmas movie. Every villain should have his own theme song.

Torzeh


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:04 am


I suppose it's inevitable that Heath Ledger's rendition of the Joker be brought up, and rightly so in my opinion. Cinematically, the only thing he did incorrectly (in my opinion, which is only that of a layman when it comes to acting) is perhaps to outshine the protagonist when it comes to being interesting and memorable.
See any other villain can be bought and sold. Be it money, be it revenge, they have a goal, a driving force, something that motivates them. The only thing that seemed to motivate the Joker was chaos but rather than make him a feral and ravening entity that destroyed wantonly and blindly, they made him highly intelligent. He would weave brilliant and complex schemes, but only in situations where the could be made to work towards the end of greater chaos in the world or inspiring it in others.
At the same time there was great humanity within his words. In any well done movie, you won't think of the characters, as you're watching, as actors who are reading rehearsed lines, but Heath Ledger went a step beyond that; at times, it sounded like not even his character knew what exactly he might say next, with the occasional stutter or seeming haphazard word or gesture.
He has already made someone's list (though I cannot remember who's list, as I was linked by the AIM Dashboard) and he makes mine, as well. I'll be adding other thoughts as more people post their picks.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:35 am


Hannibal, the ultimate.

Sweet Lovely Death


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:38 am


You're all welcome to stick to as brief a post as you'd like but I personally would love to hear you make a good case and defend your pick as to what makes them so great a villain.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:39 am


Sweet Lovely Death
Hannibal, the ultimate.

I was going to say Hannibal, but I don't think of him as a villain so much as a...curiosity.

Torzeh


Sweet Lovely Death

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:11 am


If we don't regard Hannibal as a villain, then what are our guidelines and basis for calling ANYONE a villain? There is no such thing as pure evil existing in humans, at least in a villain/murderer sense. Until we get to discussing whether lack of any morals or conscience is equal to evil, Hannibal does remain a "villain" - at least in the classic sense.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:16 am


Sweet Lovely Death
If we don't regard Hannibal as a villain, then what are our guidelines and basis for calling ANYONE a villain? There is no such thing as pure evil existing in humans, at least in a villain/murderer sense. Until we get to discussing whether lack of any morals or conscience is equal to evil, Hannibal does remain a "villain" - at least in the classic sense.

There is a classic debate that is ongoing among scholars as to whether or not malicious evil (evil done for the sake of evil and no other reason) even exists among humans, but that somewhat exceeds the scope of this thread. If anyone would like to make such a post in the philosophy thread, they are welcome to do so, but for the purposes of this thread, a villain is any character that acts as an adversarial character or one who commits actions that fall under classical conceptions of evil...Though this guide-line is not meant to limit anyone. In my opinion, Hannibal is indeed a villain, but this is one of many topics that I encourage debae upon in a thread such as this.

Matasoga
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Sweet Lovely Death

PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:19 am


Well said, Josh. : )
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:21 pm


The stuttering done by Heath Ledger made the movie seem more real, I think. And you brought up a good point... There was no real motive behind his attacks, and like Alfred said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Snickerz_83


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:52 am


Snickerz_83
The stuttering done by Heath Ledger made the movie seem more real, I think. And you brought up a good point... There was no real motive behind his attacks, and like Alfred said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn."

Yeah, my point, entirely. He explained himself in full to Harvey after burning half of his face off.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:32 pm


As the minions topic of the same name started to use real-life figures, I motion to include H. H. Holmes, America's first mass-murderer. He is famous for the 1893 World's Fair Murders and if you are interested, I highly suggest reading The Devil in the White City. Anywhere between 27 and over 100 people were killed in his "murder castle," which served as a hotel for tourists.

In the fictional realm, I suggest William Hamleigh, the main antagonist in The Pillars of the Earth. I can't think of a villain in recent memory who I wanted to die a torturous death as much as William. Not only does he rape one of the lead characters while forcing her brother to watch, but he later burns down the cathedral town out of spite. There are innumerable other dastardly deeds committed by William, but I'll let you all read the book.

tinuviel_nyx
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:43 pm


I'm going to bring in the gamer girl aspect, and say Kefka from Final Fantasy VI. He poisoned an entire city via the water, killing every single person including children. He enslaves a race, kills an emperor, and sets a castle on fire; all for power. Best FF villain thus far if not ever.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:46 pm


AGCourtney
I'm going to bring in the gamer girl aspect, and say Kefka from Final Fantasy VI. He poisoned an entire city via the water, killing every single person including children. He enslaves a race, kills an emperor, and sets a castle on fire; all for power. Best FF villain thus far if not ever.

Given that I've only played VII and VIII the whole way through, and seen the over hyped (who would have been fine -if less than inspiring- has his accursed fan girls not made me hate him) and Ultimecia (who, although interesting, has a story we never really learn) I'd have to say that he sounds a bit more interesting.

Matasoga
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:54 pm


Matasoga
AGCourtney
I'm going to bring in the gamer girl aspect, and say Kefka from Final Fantasy VI. He poisoned an entire city via the water, killing every single person including children. He enslaves a race, kills an emperor, and sets a castle on fire; all for power. Best FF villain thus far if not ever.

Given that I've only played VII and VIII the whole way through, and seen the over hyped (who would have been fine -if less than inspiring- has his accursed fan girls not made me hate him) and Ultimecia (who, although interesting, has a story we never really learn) I'd have to say that he sounds a bit more interesting.
You just listed exactly the reason why I didn't cover Sephy. xDD Yes, VI is one of the most underrated of the series, and usually the favorite of those who have played it.
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Matasoga's Disciples

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