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 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:30 pm
There's no point in studying martial arts for self-defense if you aren't willing to fight over anything. And I've heard all sorts of philosophies of when it's okay to throw a punch. So the question I pose is-
Under what circumstances would you use the techniques you've learned in your training to fight against an opponent?
(This doesn't include matches in a ring, sparring, playing around, training, etc.)
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:36 am
When I fear for my physical safety, or that of friends or loved ones.
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:02 am
when the other person attempts to make the first physical strike on myself or loved ones, or those unable to defend themselves in that instance, and when physical violence cannot be avoided (that includes when running away isnt an option xd )
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:03 am
Iconised Ghost when the other person attempts to make the first physical strike on myself or loved ones, or those unable to defend themselves in that instance, and when physical violence cannot be avoided (that includes when running away isnt an option xd ) that reminds me of an episode of xena and her philosophy [during the ep] that 1. run 2. if you can't run talk your way out then run 2. if not that possible use your head then run... or something along the lines of that.. anyway i havent really been studying kendo for self defence because if i relied on skills iv learned from that to be a form of defence id need a weapon and thats not exactly handy or convenient [theres more i could say but il be getting off topic].. but to the point im provoked [as already mentioned] in the way of- threatened [physical safety] to the point that i cannot get out of the situation [through xenas advice xd ] or risk of safety of anyone else is threatened.particularly close friends, friends and family.
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:15 pm
I'll have to agree with Darkling. But if someone wants to have a sparring match, then I'm okay with that.
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:17 pm
yeah. sparring strangers can be exciting
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:57 pm
For the most part, I'd agree with what people are saying. Self-defense is to be used for just that: defending yourself from an attack as a last resort, when all else fails.
But when do you know you're in deep enough that you need to fight to get out of it? Is it when someone throws a strike? When someone starts to threaten you verbally? Where do you decide that talking can't work anymore? What signs do you look for to know you'll have to defend yourself physically?
Sparring matches are great. And I'm sure most martial artists are all for them. But I'm asking about fighting as necessity, not for fun.
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:43 pm
Kushou Yoru For the most part, I'd agree with what people are saying. Self-defense is to be used for just that: defending yourself from an attack as a last resort, when all else fails. But when do you know you're in deep enough that you need to fight to get out of it? Is it when someone throws a strike? When someone starts to threaten you verbally? Where do you decide that talking can't work anymore? What signs do you look for to know you'll have to defend yourself physically? For me its when they throw the first strike. My art teaches that you are never the one to make the first strike, so yeah. And even if they do, if running away is stil viable, i'd do it xd
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:17 am
Unfortunately, as "honourable" as waiting for them to throw the first strike sounds. In a real street suituation, the one that strikes first is usually the one thats standing at the end. Sad but true.
So if I cant walk out, or talk out and I know they are going to try and hit me, or have a reasonable grounds to believe they will. Then I will and have struck first.
If they put you in a situation where you fear for your physical safety, I.E. they are right in your face screaming at you, obviously working themselves up to hit you, I have no problems whatsoever in putting them down. They shouldn't have put me in the situation where I had to resort to that anyways.
And the signs I look for are simple. Being verbally aggressive towards me, and encroaching upon my personal space despite my not wanting them to.
So someone is giving you s**t. First thing you do is put your hands up in what is known as the "wall." Hands open, and defining your personal space and tell them to leave you alone. If they persist then I believe you are well within your rights to hit them. If you have a problem with that, pushing them away is another tactic you can use. Because as soon as they come back at you they are signalling their intent to attack. So drop them.
All of that may seem harsh but I will not tolerate someone putting me in that situation, regardless of whether they mean to attack you or not.
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:34 am
DarklingGlory Unfortunately, as "honourable" as waiting for them to throw the first strike sounds. In a real street suituation, the one that strikes first is usually the one thats standing at the end. Sad but true. So if I cant walk out, or talk out and I know they are going to try and hit me, or have a reasonable grounds to believe they will. Then I will and have struck first. If they put you in a situation where you fear for your physical safety, I.E. they are right in your face screaming at you, obviously working themselves up to hit you, I have no problems whatsoever in putting them down. They shouldn't have put me in the situation where I had to resort to that anyways. And the signs I look for are simple. Being verbally aggressive towards me, and encroaching upon my personal space despite my not wanting them to. So someone is giving you s**t. First thing you do is put your hands up in what is known as the "wall." Hands open, and defining your personal space and tell them to leave you alone. If they persist then I believe you are well within your rights to hit them. If you have a problem with that, pushing them away is another tactic you can use. Because as soon as they come back at you they are signalling their intent to attack. So drop them. All of that may seem harsh but I will not tolerate someone putting me in that situation, regardless of whether they mean to attack you or not. Even so, i think i would still wait. Plus there are legal issues with striking first. Or at least, there are here i think
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:33 am
Whenever I can win.
As a result, I punch every baby I see, unless it has AIDS. Then... Then I kinda back the ******** up.
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:53 am
Iconised Ghost DarklingGlory Unfortunately, as "honourable" as waiting for them to throw the first strike sounds. In a real street suituation, the one that strikes first is usually the one thats standing at the end. Sad but true. So if I cant walk out, or talk out and I know they are going to try and hit me, or have a reasonable grounds to believe they will. Then I will and have struck first. If they put you in a situation where you fear for your physical safety, I.E. they are right in your face screaming at you, obviously working themselves up to hit you, I have no problems whatsoever in putting them down. They shouldn't have put me in the situation where I had to resort to that anyways. And the signs I look for are simple. Being verbally aggressive towards me, and encroaching upon my personal space despite my not wanting them to. So someone is giving you s**t. First thing you do is put your hands up in what is known as the "wall." Hands open, and defining your personal space and tell them to leave you alone. If they persist then I believe you are well within your rights to hit them. If you have a problem with that, pushing them away is another tactic you can use. Because as soon as they come back at you they are signalling their intent to attack. So drop them. All of that may seem harsh but I will not tolerate someone putting me in that situation, regardless of whether they mean to attack you or not. Even so, i think i would still wait. Plus there are legal issues with striking first. Or at least, there are here i think Well, there are several factors you have to consider. Where, who and risk. Situation 1: It's late at night, in a deserted street with no one around. Someone on their own comes up to you and starts acting very aggresively. Ideally, if you cant talk them down, you push then away and run. If that isn't possible, what do you do? You have to weigh up the risks, if they attack you on their initiative, there is a good chance you are going down and you could end up dead. Personally there is no way I wouldn't strike first. I would tell them to leave me alone and if they didn't I'd hit them, and carry on hitting them till they fell, then run away. Who cares about legal implications, there are no witnesses and its their word against yours, even if anybody manages to track you down. And the consequences of not taking action could be very severe indeed. If you are in the above situation and there is more than one attacker, you have to attack first and attack with as much brutality as you can muster. Use any weapon that comes to hand, and if possible put one of them in so much agony the others back off. Even then you are still in massive trouble and you'd better hope what ever god you believe in is with you. Situation 2: You are in a bar (not as likely for many of you, what with being young, but pretty much the most common instance of assault) and someone is acting very aggressively towards you. Due to the situation there are of course multiple witnesses. You are in not as much risk as situation 1, but you could still get hospitalised or worse. The best course of action in this situation is to keep peaceful for as long as possible and to draw as much attention to it as possible. Keep loudly telling them to leave you alone. If security doesn't come (which they should in bar) and the situation begins to come to a head, give them a hard push whilst loudly telling them to leave you alone. In a situation like that, nine times out of ten if you push them they will then come back in and swing at you. Whilst they have swung first, you have taken the initiative and can take action accordingly. Witnesses will be able to testify that all along you were telling them to leave you alone, all you did was push them and they still attacked. I'm not 100% sure about the states, but in the UK and much of europe you can use "reasonable force" if you fear for your safety. So use your training, block, counter, put them down as quickly as possible then back the hell off whilst telling all present how much you didn't want for that to happen. Situation 3: Someone starting on you in or around school. There will be lots of witnesses, the consequences of attacking first will be severe, and the whilst you could take a good kicking you are unlikely to get killed. In this situation, yes I agree waiting for the first strike is probably the best thing. Make sure you keep up a good wall, try and maintain a good amount of space. Dont pay any attention to anything they say, as it is a common tactic to distract you with dialogue then attack as you reply. Keep telling them to leave you alone whilst watching for any hint of an attack. As soon as they do, do your thing. Put them down with the minimum force possible then back the hell off. Tat - Lol mate you must have a tiring day xd If you attack everyone you can beat how'd you make it down the street? "Goddam, not another old lady to beat down, I GOT THINGS I NEED TO DO!"
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:02 am
what you say is all true, but being taught not to strike first actually makes it very hard to do. Not only is it hard to go against your training mentally, its hard to actually be able to strike first effectively having been taught that doing so puts you in danger immediately. I would still be more likely to go for pre-emptive strikes, strikes as the move to come in to attack me
And i wouldnt be in a deserted street late at night by myself to begin with wink
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:19 am
Ok, so what about doing things which cause them to attack when you want them to? Like the pushing thing?
You wouldn't believe the number of people I've seen knocked out by being hit when they weren't prepared. Typically the aggressor will get right up close, literally face to face whilst saying some bollocks like "You lookin at me" or some other stupidity. Then hook punch them out of nowhere. It's virtually impossible to see or stop. It comes straight out of peripheral vision, which incidentally shuts down when adrenilin starts pumping into your system... Like during a high stress encounter like that.
And I wasn't implying anything xp
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:36 am
It really depends. When would i fight, when they do the arm twitch that means they are about to come up with a punch. When would i step in and "gently persuade" someone, it depends. If someone is getting up in someones elses face for no reasson and it looks like it is about go bad, i might step in and defuse the situation without using strikes, with words if it will work, with my hands otherwise.
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