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The Committee Staff Gaian
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 Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:19 am
✗✗Blob ^^~✗✗
This may be considered as an obvious, or a pretty stupid question to ask or to discuss, but I just wanted to hear waht people thought about this.
So, I realize that a lot of people have strong belief in God, and the 7-day creationism. There are also some that believe in Darwin's theory of evolution. What do you believe in? And why? On what bases?
Speaking as an atheist, I strongly believe in the scientific explanation of where humans might have come from. Evolution has happened around us, is happening and it will continue to do so. Maybe I lack some understanding, but I just do not get why some people insist on believing in the creationism mentioned in the Bible. Then, what happened to the dinosaurs, mammoths, and the single cell organisms that are claimed to have lived on the earth long before unicellular creatures were introduced?
✗✗~βĿoodrΦps✗✗
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:37 am
Ahaha, I love this topic already.
I'm more of a creationist-evolutionist. Though I guess if you had to classify that in religion, it'd be more along the lines of Deism.
I don't really have a problem with the idea of a God. Quite frankly, I believe that there just might be one. What I do have a problem with is the Catholic/Christian idea of God. And to quote my homeboy (circa 341 BCE - 270 BCE) Epicurus:
" Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? "
If you look at what a Deist believes, you'll basically see what I believe. Which is Deism is the belief that a supreme god exists and created the physical universe, but does not intervene in its normal operation.
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The Committee Staff Gaian
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:00 am
✗✗Blob ^^~✗✗
Hmm, yeah Deism sounds more...well, realistic, although I am a bit hesitant to call it so.
Both of my grandmothers believe in Theism, and it often makes me go and sigh when they talk about the illnesses they have are caused for not praying as much, and only praying will heal it than going to the hospital...it's pretty bad.
Haha I love the little quote you have there. Then, a question for you. If you believe that God exists, created the universe, but doesn't intervene in its normal operation, what is the point in believing in Him?
✗✗~βĿoodrΦps✗✗
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:52 am
That is by far one of my favorite quotes, Shoeless Saint. /highfive
I do not especially care to find a label for myself, and I have never been the sort inclined to seek out a religious affiliation of any kind. I am perfectly comfortable with not needing to have the explanation of why, so you're going to get a pretty wishy-washy opinion on my part.
If I had to lean more towards one or the other it would be the evolutionary theory, but I have great reservations about setting my foot down about such things. I will not say that science is simply stabbing in the dark, but I find it vain of us to assume that we have the power to prove everything with it. There is much we do not yet know, and may never know.
Religion and science serve the same purpose in very different ways. Man has an inherent desire to organize his world, to understand it, to make sense of it. Both do so.
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:40 pm
 ✕ she said » » » ( let's change our ) -- { -- LUCK -- }this night is all we've » » » ( got )
drive fast until we crash
this » dead end « life
sweet ( dreams ) that won't come true
i'd leave it all for » you «
brick walls are closing » » » ( in )
let's make a run - - - { tonight }
xxxI myself believe mostly in evolution.
After all, it's proof is around us. Visible, material proof.
But what proof is there in this Christian 'God'? A book?
That's not actual proof. I do believe something created life itself, the spark of something that gives us being and thought and emotion; and that something is Mother Earth, the great Goddess, and her consort, the Horned God, etc. Call them what you will.
But.. I agree with Evrae. Mankind does have a desire to organize and understand every aspect of his world, as do both religion and science do so. (Luckily I myself have mostly overcome this desire.. mostly)
And creationism is sort of.. just assuming what happened. In the seven day creation story, everything else was created before man. How does man know what took place in that week? It makes no reference to God telling Adam and Eve or their decendants this.
To wrap it all up, I believe there are some things man has no buisness in knowing, and will never know. People should just lie back and enjoy the wonders of life; the growth of trees and flowers and the gracefulness of wildlife. Stuff like that, y'know?
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:56 pm
Theism is horrible. I just don't get it.
Anyways, I'm not sure you completely understand just how big of a deal the Big Bang was. Stephen Hawking has calculated that if the rate of the universe's expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million-million, the universe would have collapsed into a fireball. British physicist P.C.W. Davies has concluded that the odds against the initial conditions which are necessary for planets and thus life, is a one followed by at least a thousand billion-billion zeros. Davies also estimated that if the strength of gravity were changed by only one part in the 10 to the 100th exponent, life could have never developed (for comparison, there are only 10 to the 60th exponent in the entire known universe). There are also about 50 constants and quantities- For example, the amount of usable energy in the universe, the difference in mass between protons and nuetrons, the proportion of matter to antimatter- that must be balanced to a mathematically infinitesimal degree for any life to be possible.
And I don't believe in "Him." I believe in a god. Not THE God, not Allah, Buddha, or any of those dudes. I believe in a god. For all I know, my god is a woman. The point in believing in god for me, is to make up for things that I'm not smart enough to understand. And I like to consider myself pretty damn smart, but there are still somethings we all don't understand. And it's that factor. Fate, luck, god, karma...whatever you call it.
I mean think of it this way, if me and you are just talking to each other (face to face) and we hear a big bang outside. You go, "What was that?" right? Who wouldn't? And I say, "Nothing, it just happened." You're going to accept that? I don't think so. You want to know what caused that bang. Leaving it up to chance/fate/karma/luck/god to create a universe in those kind of mathematical conditions? How lucky can you get?
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The Committee Staff Gaian
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Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:26 am
✗✗Blob D:✗✗Oh dear, lol, you take physics? Thank god I took Biology D:
Anyways...I agree Theism being horrible. :/ But uh, going back to the topic, I don't believe in luck or fate, or any of that sort. How can there be such a thing, there always has to be an explanation, yeah, but not something that can not be proven with some hard facts.
About the example you came up with...about the big bang outside, I would actually wonder what that was, but in a short while I would be back to the conversation..maybe I'm just really careless.
What am I saying..
✗✗~βĿoodrΦps✗✗
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:06 am
Hahaha, like my example, you would wonder what made that bang. So how did the big bang happen? With those statistical improbabilities? I believe there was something behind it.
It's like EvraeAltana said, man has always tried to organize his world and understand it.
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The Committee Staff Gaian
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:32 am
✗✗Blob D:~✗✗Yup yup...;; ✗✗~βĿoodrΦps✗✗
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:04 pm
Heh, dunno if I've made it obvious yet but I live in Utah. Utah was settled by Mormons. Church is a big part of our lives. You don't have to be religious, but it just is. Like, it sets a mood for us kinda. . .People are people, they vary. No one is exactly the same.
Yet. . .It just seems to me that most people are pretty kind and responsible. They believe in God. The really devote ones don't drink caffeine (. . .Is that how you spell it? My spell check says so but I think that's odd) which is weird to us. But it's not unheard of. The church helps a lot of people out, and most members of the church attend every Sunday. You can be any person at all, but if you dress up in nice clothes and are polite and go to church on Sunday (and don't drink or do drugs or have a bad lawn, heh) then you're like most of the Mormon church goers. Even if you do drugs and drink and such, as long as you go to church. . .People might gossip about you or whatever, as people do, but you're part of it anyway.
We don't necessarily pray. Like, we do, but we don't get to our knees and pray or bow or anything. Sure, we tilt our heads down and fold our arms and someone says a prayer then says amen and everyone follows. I'm not religious, I don't usually attend church, yet if someone says a prayer around here it's habit to tilt your head in reverence and say amen at the end.
So, do I believe in God or Evolution? Despite knowing a lot about the LDS faith, despite having that nagging 'well, if he does exist there'll be hell to pay if you dont' believe while you are alive', despite wanting to believe, I can't. It's not rational, and I don't believe it. I won't force myself to, and odldy that's one of the kinds of things my peers would want me to. I grew up with so many friends not being able to play on Sunday with me if I didn't go to church with them (their parent's rules)
But I believe that Evolution makes more sense to me. I read a book by Dan Brown called Deception point and it pointed out something I hadn't realized before. Something that makes perfect sense to me.
What if the organisms that thrive and evolved on earth came from space? I mean, they'd be in a different environment, don't get me wrong, they'd change a lot to the world around them. But what if? I mean, wouldn't it make sense? Bugs, mostly. Bugs could come from space. Like cockroaches!
Okay. I just needed something to do, heh, so I thought I'd post my opinion on this.
Heh, I think it's adorable when the little boys dress up in tuxes and go to church. They get so restless, it's so funny. But sacrament is boring, I dont' blame them. They always make me smile, though
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:31 pm
✕ she said » » » ( let's change our ) -- { -- LUCK -- }this night is all we've » » » ( got )
drive fast until we crash
this » dead end « life
sweet ( dreams ) that won't come true
i'd leave it all for » you «
brick walls are closing » » » ( in )
let's make a run - - - { tonight }
xxxYou live in Utah? So do I, rofl.
Anyways, yeah.. The people around here are nice. The church-goers and stuff. Most of them don't bother me about not believing and stuff, so it's not too bad. One of my best friends is Mormon, and she's okay with my beliefs as long as I don't push them on her. So s'all good.
Hm.. If the organisms that now live on earth came from space, that'd be a little weird xD But cool. And cockroaches? That makes me think of Men In Black. Anyone even remember that movie? >D
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:18 pm
Heh. I'm in a rather religious town/neighborhood myself ^_^ But it's fun.
I liked going to church until my friend, Preston, moved away. My parent's aren't religious. My dad's parents are, though. They've donated a lot of money to the church, so I guess that makes them important members. Not like the bishop or anything, no, no. Just friends with people, nice people. Except my grandma gossips. It's. . .odd. I hate going to church with her now, she seems to always be talking about someone.
Anyway, yeah. The book illustrates the point that they'd be bigger but that gravity would like, make them smaller and that they'd adapt to the world. I was quite amused. ^_^ There'd still have to be a different theory, I think, to start everything else. So the Big Bang is still likely in my mind.
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