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I had the idea for a Tier based system for magic skill levels. I proposed this to Inu without being able to explain it before I was shot down. Since then, I've thought about it more, and came up with the following information.
Also, I find it slightly... strange, in the current system a person can go from a novice (someone who can't do anything) to suddenly be able to cast magic almost easily of varying abilities and strengths. With my proposed system, a slightly more balanced idea was formed, and gives way to, what I feel, is a easier system to follow. While it is more complex, it provides a firmer guideline, and hopefully a rough idea, of what your character should be able to do in general.

The idea for Tiered Magic Ability is as follows










That is my idea for Tiered Magic Abilities.

Now for my ideas on the classifications of magic.

You may cast magic out of your tier bracket. Novice can try to cast Average Leveled spells and such. However, this comes at a great risk. The chance of failure and backfiring will be quadrupled per level. This may seem like a lot, but try to do something you've never done before. It's a little risky. If spell fails, it will cause fatigue and stress, and possible permanent damage to the controlling organs. Even if the spell is cast successfully, a tremendous amount of strain is put on the controlling organs and will cause excessive fatigue in the caster, putting themselves in grave danger.
For example; if a novice tried to cast a spell with a 10% failure rate at the Average level, it would have a 40% chance of failing. However; If a novice tried to cast a spell with a 10% chance of failure at the Skilled level, it would have a 160% chance of failure. As you can see, this would be a bad idea. It obviously just gets much worse as the level increases.

As for tiered magical abilities, each level of skill can roughly be broken up as the following:
Unknowing - You don't know magic, you can't defend against it either.
Novice - Novices can cast magic, but their spells are limited to attempting control of the element.
Average - Those who are Average in the school of magic can use their element with difficulty, but can succeed in doing what they wanted... for the most. Either magic is defensive, or offensive, but not both.
Skilled - Those Skilled in this school of magic have gained control of the element and now can wield it both offensively and defensively.
Master - Sub-categories in the magic school can now be used (Wind -> Lightning for example)
Superhuman - There is nothing this person can't do with their element.

Each element of magic has a sub-category.
Air has Lightningh
Fire has Magma/Lava
Water has Ice
White has Offensive Holy
Dark has Summoning
Earth... well, I'm not creative enough to come up with a real subcategory for it; however, being able to move larger objects or effect larger areas with the magic would still classify as a sub-category (Stronger and greater control of the element).
Illusion magic is mutli-classed. Each class of magic will have its own illusions based on their element to use as a distraction to allow the illusions to work. However, you must be trained in the ability to use your element's illusion based magic before you can even start to cast it. In which, add 1 year of training to each classification for Illusion training.

There should also be a non-elemental magic, Arcane. This magic should not be more effective against anything, nor strong against anything in particular. This should be known as "Old Magic" as if something that does not seem to fit into any elemental category nor physical skill because the spell was made before elemental affinities where created. If Arcane magic were to be implemented, Illusion magic would no longer be multi-classed, but instead just fall under the Arcane school of magic. Arcane magic would have no sub-category nor expanded strengths. The magic that exists for Arcane spells just exist and cannot be altered or improved as they have been tested throughout time, and found perfect. Transmutation may be classified as Arcane magic, if anyone has this ability.

I also have an idea for a new spell template.

Spells should never have a zero failure rate. Everything has a chance to fail. Also, no spell should be uncounterable. You can however, within reason, make a spell extremely difficult to counter. But; with a lower chance of failure and a steeper requirement to counter it, the Required Skill Level should also increase. As for "Dodge, Block, or Counterable" this is where you would put how one could stop the spell from effecting their players. If a spell cannot be blocked or dodged, it should be counterable. Use your best judgment here.

Will Power and Intelligence should have the greatest impact on a player's magic skill levels. While it should not be a direct reflection, it should be pretty close.
Power is the amount of times a player can cast magic. The higher the level in power, the more often you can cast magic. Even Superhuman levels have their limits, no more than 50 casts of a low level spell in a 48 hour period.
Other stats, like Agility and Dexterity should effect the school of magic associated with the movements required to perform the spells.
For example:
Strength should directly influence Earth Magic.
Dexterity should directly influence Water Magic.
Agility should directly influence Air Magic.


Please give me your thoughts, feelings, and any other ideas you might have after reading this. As the poll states, if you find anything confusing or you think just won't work; post it and we'll discuss it.
This is an idea. Not a new set of rules or anything. Just something that I think will help quell some of the issues that seem to be rising.
I can expand on any section if needed. If you feel like something needs to be explained more, please let me know and I'll get right on it.
None of this is official or anything, I'm just present my idea on how magic should work, and I'd like to know what everyone else things about my idea.

The times are just there for suggestions. I felt like they were realistic, and for already existing abilities and spells, everyone should be more than able to do what they want. Hitsu mentioned to me while I was writing this that the youngest current player is Mitsu, at 17 years old.
With racial bonuses, like a dragon's affinity towards fire/holy, it may only take them 7 years to reach a mastered level. The same would apply to any other race that would have a specific connection to a particular element.
As for RPing the learning process, you can do as I do with my characters, and just remove them from active play to have them perform boring chores and tasks like traveling between towns, meeting with the "main" people, etc. I would imagine there are "cram-schools" that would attempt to teach you the next level of magic in the fastest time possible.


The rate of failure is high on lower skill levels, but the risk of permanent damage or possibly fatal damage at those same levels is low. For example, a failed white magic spell may cause the heart to skip a beat, or stop for a moment. A spell that focuses on the brain, my cause a small seizure or lapse in memory. You can decide how your spells effect the body when they fail or backfire.
The second rate of failure is when someone on a lower level attempts to cast a higher level spell. This in and of itself is a bad idea.
Think of it like this. I just started lifting weights, I can only lift 15lbs of weight with ease. However, I'm gonna try to lift this 250lbs of weight with no training before hand. You can see how this is a bad idea, and how it will negatively effect my body (and ultimately fail). Same applies for magic. Trying something well beyond your grasp won't work, and will harm you.


Someone without magical abilities. Think of it as not knowing how to use a gun, and somebody holds you at gunpoint. Just because you may not really know what it is, or how it works, doesn't mean you can't defend yourself or get the upper hand.
Martial Arts often trains people on how to gain the upper hand against someone with a weapon of any kind.
Just because someone doesn't have any magic ability at all doesn't mean they are completely defenseless. If someone throws a fireball at you, wouldn't you dodge it, or at least try to?
Obviously there will be some things that will be beyond the grasp or knowledge of a person to avoid an attack or protect against it, but that can be true about real life.


You are more than welcome to give a racial based ability to control things on reflex or in a unconscious state if this system would be implemented.
There's nothing wrong with being able to control an element when the body has moved into a state of emergency and it takes control of itself to keep itself safe.
I would imagine that someone with an Earth affinity would create an earth tomb around themselves to prevent further damage, and other such actions for each of the other elements.

If you have any further questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask.

I've already mentioned this at least in part, but I'm going to say it here too. Here, because even though this might not be the place for it this thread is about suggestions and ideas as well, so... Yeah, I can delete it if Skye or Inu want me to.

I'm upset right now. Not mad. Quite the opposite, really. I'm sure that in the end I am letting my paranoia get the better of me and make me worry about the worst possible scenario being the result of this, at least I hope I'm just being paranoid.

I think that tiers are a good idea, but I think that this is probably more extensive and detailed than needed. I know that Skye put alot of thought and work into it, and I'd like to see it given some sort of consideration even if just bits and pieces. I really like Mitsu's method of letting us make up the spells, but I think there needs to be more details provided for the skill levels and I do think that the ability leap between Novice (as in sticking with Inu's rule of not being able to cast at all) to Average is a lot, since someone's got to be in that stage of trying it out, capable of weaker spells and casting (be it useful or successful or not), before they can have an average level of skill. It's probably a bad example, but a baby doesn't go straight from being a helpless wiggling ball to walking around. They first have to learn how to lift their head, sit up without falling over, crawl, and then walking comes into play.

Now, I kinda wish I never would have made that thread with magic restrictions, and just let people think as they would. I was, like these two, trying to help put a better description to things, perhaps give a better idea of how I thought the different types of magic worked. My most important reasoning behind it was to give a fighting chance to those who were either weak in magic, or didn't rely on it at all. I wanted there to be a way for these characters to disable a magic user from leaving them with no fragment of a chance of winning in a fight. Someone said that they had never thought that Nao was going to revolve so much about fighting, and I have to admit that I didn't either. I knew that there would be fighting, because without danger and bad guys it would just be lame. However, at this point I'm so sick of seeing any level of violence that I'm about to the point that I'm just going to write out Hitsu and Yuki until everything is sorted out, if not out for good. I don't want to resort to it, because I had plans and I know that others did as well. But, if it comes down to it, I'd much rather have wasted my time than risk losing friends.

I might sound like I'm being a drama queen, and maybe I am, but I'm being honest about how I feel right now. The two people that I care the most about in the world are standing on opposite sides of an issue that is going to have a serious effect on the way things are working here, and while I know that both sides have their good and bad, and I know that something needs to happen that's better than what's going on right now... I just have no idea which way to go, and I'm just left to hope that if there's not some sort of mutual agreement that grudges aren't held and people don't end up hating one another. I feel retarded to be this upset about RP, of all things, but the way I see it these characters are extensions of ourselves, so if someone does or says something that we don't like, it's going to hurt even if it's not against you personally. After going this long without much of a barrier, it's rough being told that what you'd been doing (or planned to do) all along isn't going to cut it anymore.

To those it concerns, I'm sorry. I really just can't think anymore. I just want it to be fun like it was a couple of days ago, without worry. We're all supposed to be happy here, aren't we? I just want everything to return to normal, or at least for there to be some sort of solution that's not going to upset anyone in the end. Near impossible, I guess, but I hope I can dream.

I personally like a good rp battle myself... so I know I've only contributed to the problem since I joined. @_@

But.. I think I know what's bothering me... Not entirely sure though.
I think... it's the massive amount of detail that bothers me some. Aside from failure rate, there's the proposal about linking stats with the elements.. which may essentially throw some people off completely..

I guess in a way I feel that this is kinda making things overly complex... or something like that.

I'm not really sure where to start with all of this but here goes my best shot.

First off, Skye, I appreciate the thought and effort you put into your idea. I can see where it would be useful and helps give a better idea on where their character stands with their level of magic. However, you are making this far more complicated than it EVER needed to be. I know your only trying to help me out and help the roleplay out but at this point I'm beginning to regret magic even exists. Its seems to be the main and in some instances the only major problem we have had with the roleplay. It hasn't been the fighting, not so much the drama or angst (though that is a factor), but the use of magic. When it comes to magic it seems to be the one thing that no one can fully agree on.

I left the stats the way they were because it was simple and easy to understand. You could see where your character fell in at and could see what level of magic you could use. How far into that level you were would determine how easily that level of magic would come to you. While I respect the thought that you can't learn without trial and error it kinda erases the boundries that were put in place to begin with. It was everyone's choice in the beginng to place their character where they wanted at each level for Strength, Agility, Willpower, Power, and so on. If you are unhappy with the level you are at and want to do higher levels of magic then you need to remake your stats and sacrific a high stat in something else to allow that. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Now, I can see a point to the bridge between levels but if this were to come about there would have to be a solid rule about it. Considering you have three tiers for each level we'll say they are levels one for beginnger and level three for master of that skill level. If you are a level one or two and make an attempt at a spell at the next skill level it will have a 100% fail rate. If you are a level three you may attempt a level one spell in the next skill level up but it will still have a 75% fail rate and a dice will be required to roll to see if it works. A four sided die, you choose one number. If you manage to choose the number you picked than it works other wise the spell will fail and with consequences.

I'll see what I can do to put this into the works somehow since you've obviously put a lot of time and effort into it. I guess we'll ...set up another thread or would this fall under another one? Anyway I gues Hitsu and I will work something out.