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How often have heard this argument before? I keep hearing but it makes no-sense at all.

Basically every thing we eat (last time I checked) was once living at one time or another, including plants.
So does that mean we have to starve ourselfs in order to be pro-life? We have to eat and sometimes in a life or death situation we would need to kill in order to stay alive, that doesn't mean we don't care about animals or any living thing.

In fact I think that is the only time I find abortion acceptible, in a life or death/emergency situation.

What do you guys think about all this or what had to told them in a debate?

Also how much safer is abortion compared to giving birth? I keep hearing that but they no proof to back it up (besides using baised sites from time to time, usualt I ignore half the time since it's it's not ok for us to post sites claiming that it's "baised" as well).

As a vegetarian and a pro-lifer, I actually do know the basis of their statement. I believe that all life is sacred and thus I don't call for the death of anyone or anything unnecessarily.

As to what divineseraph said, are you aware that the vast majority of the grain produce in the world goes to feed livestock that are eventually slaughtered for meat? If we were to use those resources to directly feed humans we would be able to feed far more people around the world than we are able to now.

You can see more on what I'm talking about here: http://www.charityguide.org/volunteer/fifteen/vegetarian-dishes.htm

Well some animals are protected but those are the ones indangered and you can't abuse animals either so it's not like we are supporting animal abuse or killing them for fun instead of survival.

But what upsets me is that we are expected to not eat meat if we are pro-life. Meat has a lot of things that we need-potein,iron, fat, and fish has omega-3,ect...and it's something a lot of just grew up eating so it's hard to stop now and as what others said, there is a limit of food like grains, fruits, and vegetables.

Now I agree that fruits and vegetables are healthy and probably should eat more of them and less meat (for health reasons at least. Meat is awhole lot harder to digest), but it's rediculous and unrealistic to expect everyone not to eat at least some meat.

Yes life is sacred but sometimes death is necessary for survival. Even plants are living things.

I think it's silly. And stupid.

Gay Rights Advocates... do they gotta be gay? Clearly, if you support an idea, you have to go all the way with it!

Flawed logic right there.

And I am a Veggie/Flexitarian. But not because I want to particularly save the animals. ...it just keeps the pounds off. whee

But if you look at it that way, then we're touching on the very subject of this guild. Unborn human life isn't given the same rights and protections as the rest of humanity either, does that mean they matter any less? :/

I'm not saying that my views hold true for everyone, and I'm generally anything but pushy. You're right we have to draw the line somewhere and for me, that line is drawn at sentience.

If it's unnecessary for me to require the life of an animal to survive, then I don't do it. You can live a perfectly healthy life without consuming any animal products at all. In regards to what I.Am said, even if it is or were true that most grains fed to animals are unfit for humans, the point I was trying to make earlier is that the resources (land, manpower, etc...) could be used to grow foods for human consumption and, indeed, that conversion could cut down on hunger worldwide.

Of course, you needn't be a vegetarian to be pro-life, it is a big issue that blankets over a variety of peoples from all walks of life so it's pretty silly to expect all pro-lifers to only come from one part of it. Having said that, it rings true to me that to murder an unborn child is the same as taking any innocent life. So it makes sense for me to live as close to a cruelty-free life as possible, as well as be an activist for the unborn.

Except that we really are arguing legalities.

I did not say that they matter less. I said that the very basis of the law makes humans more important than other animals. It is why the law can be changed to protect humans and why laws that discriminate against other humans are deemed unfair and changed.

It might change someday. But as it is, human beings are very clearly above other animals, in law, and are supposed to be equal and be treated equally under the law. Human rights are already well established in law and if you are pro-life you see that they are not being granted to every human the way they should be. Animal rights are not the same.

Conren's point was pretty awesome.

I don't think so. It took me a while to go vegetarian--I didn't do it overnight--but it's not really that difficult. Restaurants can get annoying (thought they've gotten a lot better, with the number of vegetarians increasing all the time) but I don't think it's any harder than, say, expecting someone to carry a pregnancy to term even though they may not like it. wink Some things are more important than convenience, right?


If humans required meat to survive, I wouldn't be a vegetarian. (I doubt anyone would be.) Some animals just evolved to need to eat other animals, but humans aren't one of them. We have the ability to avoid meat and still be healthy, so eating meat is therefore just a luxury.

I understand why some people would be anti-abortion but not vegetarian, but the scientific facts are, cows and chickens have functioning central nervous systems and they can feel pain, but an embryo doesn't and can't. It may be human, and it may be alive, but it can't suffer the way an adult animal can.

Just because we have the natural ability to consume an omnivorous diet doesn't mean that we have to. A carnivore still consumes some vegetation, the difference is that they cannot survive without some things that are only found in animal flesh. Thus, the reason I cannot give my cats a vegetarian diet is because they wouldn't be able to survive without taurine. (It is possible to have artificial taurine made, though, and some veggies do feed their pets compatible diets this way)

I don't think that it's our place to step up and kill the killers - that goes for all parts of life. I'm against the death penalty as I believe that 2 wrongs don't make a right. And I would be completely against disposing of carnivores that are only doing what is natural and necessary for them.

The way I see it, human beings are the most intelligent animals on the planet. We take the reins of destiny and hold very real power over the fates of animals everywhere. With our increased intelligence should come an increased sense of morality. Other animals may not know better but we certainly do.

If deaths were quick and painless to an animal that will be used for human consumption, that would, indeed, be a blessing compared to what many animals might go through in the wild. However, the horrors of "Factory Farming" don't generally allow for such humane treatment as the workers don't even want to think of them as living beings deserving kind treatment. And, at least in the wild, the animals have a fighting chance.

I fear at this point we're veering off subject. The point has been made that one doesn't have to be veggie in order to be pro-life (I think we're all in agreement there!) But please don't attack my way of life or I will have to defend it. And, unfortunately, there is a lot of ignorance out there about the human body and its compatibility with a vegan/vegetarian diet so I've had a lot of practice with this. ^.^